topic Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits) in Modeling

About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Ignacio Azpiazu — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:35:51 GMT

In the issue of 15.09.05 of the ever-increasingly scrwd up The Architects' Journal, section 'Technical & Practice', a Joe Croser gives advice on BIM products disregarding ArchiCAD with the following words:

'As a 2D drafting tool ArchiCAD is much easier to use than (Autocad) LT for the drafting of 2D plans, sections and elevations, and is capable of producing sweet-looking drawings much faster, but in my opinion it lacks the 'I' in 'BIM' --ArchiCAD is not fully 'integrated'.
'My biggest gripe with ArchiCAD is that it is not possible to take any building model and extract true, coordinated 2D views of plans, when there are more than two floor levels visible in the plan. Yes, you can 'work around' this issue, but in doing so you lose the very coordination sought by an integrated solution and if George Scott (the guy who asked for advice) was happy struggling with workarounds he would be happier with his existing Autodesk LT.'

In my opinion, Mr. Joe Croser's fingers should be cut off for having typed such clueless stupidity. I felt like writing but thought that maybe a Brit reaction would have more of an effect.

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:37:27 GMT

to be fair , he is right!!
If you have more than one level in a single plan, then you cannot work as usual.
Look at the auditorium example posted by Petros Ioannou.
I think the article is reffereing to such examples.

Unfortunately Archicad is tighed to its roots, and the fixed floor plan approach is a very limitting one.
And whats more everything is turning around it. (show at the floor above, below,all stories).
In revit you have plan views as horizontal sections which is much more natural

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

TomWaltz — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:56:30 GMT

opinion it lacks the 'I' in 'BIM' --ArchiCAD is not fully 'integrated'

.... except that the "I" is for "information" not "integrated".

The plan/level thing is a pain, but not enough that I would slag the software for it.

Of note, you CAN do split level plans pretty easily, you just cannot mix and match then later.

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Rob — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:18:44 GMT

I tend to agree with oreopoulos and I think that was what the article meant (so there is no need for any fingers surgery, Ignacio).
Like honestly we haven’t had so many problems with the visibility of library parts, walls etc.

Of note, you CAN do split level plans pretty easily, you just cannot mix and match then later.

this is actually the point in the article that talks about workarounds, because I do not consider current plan 'fudging' as the true BIM approach.

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Ignacio Azpiazu — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:43:38 GMT

Rob wrote:
I tend to agree with oreopoulos and I think that was what the article meant (so there is no need for any fingers surgery, Ignacio)

The guy's message is 'ArchiCAD is a nice tool for 2D drafting, way better than LT, but because of this thing it is not integrated 3D, so don't go that way'!

The floor plans issue is an ultra-minor issue, relative to the whole of the 'BIM' modelling-presentation-calculation-documentation-file compatibility-workforce training/availability-etc. issues (and I would guess any program will have issues, including this guy's recommended Revit and Microstation), and this guy makes it the only BIM factor in the whole article. (And it is a minor issue in probably 2% of all projects: in my whole ArchiCAD life I've never had a project where my hands were tied because of that, including multi-building projects with split levels, sloped terrains, mismatching floor elevations and story heights, etc.).

The guy took a page to comment on 'BIM' in a technical magazine and that is the technical evaluation he comes up with! I would go for more extreme surgery.

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Rob — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:11:39 GMT

Ignacio,
is there any chance to read that article electronically? or could you eventually scan that as a low res image and post it on?

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Thomas Holm — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:49:32 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Of note, you CAN do split level plans pretty easily, you just cannot mix and match then later.

I don't see the problem? I realise you can't see it all at once in the working plan window in Archicad if you use separate stories for each level, but if you do it's no problem to create views that you integrate as you wish in Plotmaker? And with PM's current level of integration, what's the problem?

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Rob — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:45:48 GMT

I don't see the problem? I realise you can't see it all at once in the working plan window in Archicad if you use separate stories for each level, but if you do it's no problem to create views that you integrate as you wish in Plotmaker? And with PM's current level of integration, what's the problem?

I am sorry Thomas, I just didn't get your point mate
Views integration in PM What do you mean?

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:43:47 GMT

Please find attached the pdf of the article.

Cam

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Rob — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:07:37 GMT

cameronm wrote:
Please find attached the pdf of the article.

Cam

...and where is it attached?

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Ignacio Azpiazu — Fri, 04 Nov 2005 07:55:12 GMT

Sorry about the delay. I thought about copyright issues in the forum then realised I could upload it somewhere else, when I found the method I couldn't find the time and when I found the time I couldn't find the magazine.

Please first check in the top of the second page the question that triggers the 2-page long article.

http://www.ignacioazpiazu.com/samples/TAC-1.jpg
http://www.ignacioazpiazu.com/samples/TAC-2.jpg

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Petros Ioannou — Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:24:19 GMT

"As an ArchiCAD user I get asked this question quite a bit: "Why are you not using AutoCAD, since it is the most popular CAD program in the world?" My response is: "McDonald's is the most popular restaurant in the world, but I don't eat there." "

Kimon Onuma's interview from Envisions newsletter

Someone should quote that to this "open minded" flatcader!
Petros

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Petros Ioannou — Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:26:44 GMT

And he seems to be the one ringing the bells and whistling at the same time, but on who's behalf?

Anyway it seems very odd how people are still evangelizing Autocad (LT!).
The only difficulty that I find in the transition from Acad Lt to ArchiCAD would be the price. Lets say 40 seats (half of the office interested)
Acad LT 40X1100 = 44000 €
ArchiCAD 40X5500 = 220000 €

on the other hand if they choose archicad they will have to "release" half of their employers since no more trimming and offsetting is needed...
Petros

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:08:56 GMT

I have various email discussions with Joe Crosser ( who by the way is an autocad apologist. He is getting very excited about autocad losing its command line!!.)

Most of his articles on CAD usually have a section berating the Apple mac as a serious platform for working on.

He recommends buying Revit ,as Autodesk have a large R&D dept,
( althought it didnt stop them screwing up ADT).

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Nov 2005 17:31:33 GMT

I've seen several companies that go public and change to a money focus. They lose their passion. As apple has, I hope Graphisoft focuses on quality and the money will be there as well. As long as graphisoft has a passion they'll be fine.

Re: About The Architects' Journal (especially for the Brits)

Rob — Fri, 04 Nov 2005 22:55:58 GMT

It's a sad and terrible disaster when a narrow minded amateur gets published in some serious papers. I can't be bothered to comment on such a low drivel...