topic Re: Training in Modeling

Training

Djordje — Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:30:57 GMT

Dear Talkers,

From the recent postings, it is noticeable that a lot of even medium experience users did not have any or a little formal training.

The question is - why?

Please let me have your experiences.

Re: Training

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:26:31 GMT

At the Univercity. Then read the whole manual for AC 4.5 in English in printed version. There was not an Acrobat manual then, was it? I had to do it in the computer laboratory because the books could not be taken outside.
The first book for AC in Bulgarian was published for AC6 by the professor at the Univercity who thought me as a student. As far as I know it remains the only one.

Re: Training

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:03:17 GMT

People don't seem to realize that investment in training will pay for its self quite quickly. I am charging half of what trainers in other industries charge and I am still too expensive.

We are part way through a training course for people with a bit of experience, I was quite shocked at what they didn't know. Many of the students where only using 3 or 5 commands and doing stuff the hard way.

When I first started Archicad we had someone from Queensland come over because there was no one training in Perth. The company I worked for was very large (about 80 licences) so the cost wasn't much of an issue. The situation is much better now, our current reseller has managed to get Classes in to the local technical collage and is running courses of his own.

Re: Training

stefan — Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:23:59 GMT

I first learned ArchiCAD (a bit) with the demo version.

Then I bought it and the reseller got me up to speed in a two (short) sessions. The rest is learned by reading the full manuals.

No other, formal training, though.

Re: Training

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:24:04 GMT

Thrown in deep end with advice from colleagues first off.
Mostly self-taught since with the occaisional Cadimage training session. This forum is a great "resource" too.

Re: Training

Ignacio Azpiazu — Fri, 20 May 2005 17:22:28 GMT

Distributor training should rather be called 'demonstrations' or 'marketing', in my experience with more than one distributor in more than one country (err, two distributors in two countries).
I read about all the books and just couldn't get the whole picture, until I found
- Eric Batte's templates,
- Lubomir Kulisev's Training Guide,
- ArchiCAD-Talk
and that was it.
I think a consultant would not be cost-effective for the individual user, unless it is a single-person company with a fairly well defined profile that needs to set up his templates and methods --that is he needs not only training but also a CAD manager.

Re: Training

Anonymous — Sat, 21 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT

After 6 months teaching myself VectorWorks from CD's and manuals I came to work with a one-man firm who had been using Archicad for app. 7 years. There's nothing like day by day working with a pro. It's been a win-win, I've learned to work in Archicad and Gerald's learned to be more patient !

Wally

Re: Training

__archiben — Sat, 21 May 2005 03:40:46 GMT

started at university with a demo from the CAD guru there on what could be achieved (v3.?). i bought a student license (v4.12) and ran through the step-by-step and have pretty much taught my self ever since by keeping up with the latest advances. i've also taken part in a couple of training days with my previous company's resellers, three 'archiCAD universities' (matthew lohden, dwight, link and DNC all being great and patient educators in their specialised subjects) and of course this forum is a goldmine of information . . .

unfortunately the CAD-education climate in the UK back then was far less 3D orientated and as such (if i'm brutally honest with myself) i think i lack a lot of the basic skills for working straight in the 3D window . . . that's changing now, albeit quite slowly..........

~/archiben

Re: Training

James Murray — Sat, 21 May 2005 11:47:41 GMT

My firm was fortunately committed to hitting the ground running, and invested appropriately.

Two days of reseller training. (Hi Ransom) Months of working in house with a consultant. (Hi Matthew. Maybe you can remember how many months.) I took DNC's 2-day GDL seminar, which along with the cookbook got me to critical mass in no time.

How did we have a consultant for months? Simple, he worked on projects, and we billed clients for his work. So we had an ongoing learning experience that was also productive. We never lost money on an AC project, not even the very first one.

AC was our first CAD system so we didn't have to battle a lot of ACAD greybeard eye-rolling. Fortunate there too.

My general thoughts on training and learning:

The virtual building approach is radically different from whatever 2D method you used before. To be successful, you have to attack. Accept that the transition will take time and resources and commit to investing them. You probably will lose money on the first project, but if you are committed you will make money on the next one. If you half-commit, you will be constantly backsliding, and getting told-you-so's from flatlanders.

If you're not committed to modeling, you're not really using AC and you can't master it, and experts can't really help you because you're not doing the same thing.

AC is too complicated to learn on your own, IMO. The documentation and the interface don't naturally lead you to mastery. Third-party AC for dummies type books are rare. You have to make personal contact with someone who is proficient, so you know what is possible. Then practice and ACTalk will get you to a high level.

Good question, thanks for asking.

Re: Training

Anonymous — Thu, 26 May 2005 17:56:36 GMT

James wrote:
My firm was fortunately committed to hitting the ground running, and invested appropriately.

Two days of reseller training. (Hi Ransom) Months of working in house with a consultant. (Hi Matthew. Maybe you can remember how many months.)

About five months (I just checked my records). Thanks for the mention.

I agree that the course you guys took is the best. Of course it helps to have a good trainer like Ransom to start, and a talent like yours to make it fly. As Ingacio points out, some dealers' training programs are less effective than others, and, of course, a good fit with the consultant is important.

I have also had some success with straight up consulting on standards (no project work) when there is enough existing expertise in-house.

As to the original question: I am self-taught, starting in the late 80's with v3.43. Back then there weren't any other options, but the program was much simpler than it is now. An excellent demo from Pal Szabo did help to get me off to a good start.

Re: Training

Anonymous — Tue, 31 May 2005 16:35:25 GMT

In the options for voting "myself "and "nowhere" is almost the same alternative.

Re: Training

Djordje — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:44:13 GMT

jocontreras wrote:
In the options for voting "myself "and "nowhere" is almost the same alternative.

Not really.

"Myself" means that you started the tutorial, went through it, read the documentation BEFORE you plunged.

"Nowhere" means you just jumped in ... for better or worse.

Re: Training

Rakela Raul — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:43:58 GMT

interesting question!
when i did my research to give a try to another 3d program , i picked ac cuz it was the winner in the 'short learning curve' (among others) item compared to a few others....and i started with version 6 if my memory still decent....since then, i have visited the ac book only a couple of times and cuz suggested by some of you and just recently......but, it would have been great to have training back then, till today maybe!!...........i have been doing 3d since 1985 using others and i considered ac easy to learn or get to the point to produce a set of docs almost just intuitively in a short period of time

Re: Training

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:41:37 GMT

I purchased V5, put my drawing board to one side and just went for it, teaching myself from manual and phoning distributor with frequent dumb questions. Found that within 3-4 months in the deep end that I had a pretty good understanding of ArchiCAD. Attended a few courses but generally found I had advanced well beyond these and they were basically a waste of time. Have trained 5-6 trainee staff on V8+, with a mix of some courses as well, they also found courses generally too basic. The advice I offer my staff most frequently with regards to learing ArchiCAD is "Don't be afraid to try something as the undo button is the best learning tool you have available !"

Re: Training

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:42:34 GMT

After almost 12 years of Archicad and seeing the latest post, I am catching up with this topic. After all the other CAD programs, finding AC in 1994 was a real breath of fresh air. Met the local reseller (John Stebbins) and quickly could see the benefit. I too hired the demo guy to prove that it would work and I could be taught the differences between drafting and BIM. It was V4.16 for Windows. At the time the windows port was brand new and it was an eye opener. The first project was completed the first 30 days, the client was billed and paid for the original license.

From that initial project to today, the mental training that John brought as well as the enthusiasm for the virtual building has stuck to require me to continue to explore all the possibilities - and the acknowledgement of the importance the computer and AC have brought to the profession.

Lew Bishop
AC 9 US latest
Mac G4 1.5 15" Laptop
OSX 10.4

Re: Training

KeesW — Sat, 31 Dec 2005 00:11:40 GMT

I can't complete the training survey because my training comprised a combination of reseller, training courses, and self-learing with and without tutorials. More recently, I've used the excellent Virutual Tutor.

The downside of not having any training and 'picking it up as one goes along' is that one tends only to learn the bits that are needed and won't get a comprehensive overview of the full product. I came from an Autocad background and started by looking for equivalencies in Archicad. That was frustrating because it soon became clear that Archicad does thing differently.

Maybe attending a formal training course is particularly helpful if one comes from another CAD system - because it more efficiently encourages 'unlearning' which is usually required.

Re: Training

Jefferson — Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:25:32 GMT

Can we check all of the above? You are missing the the box, trainer came to my place of business........

I started with the knock-off VectorWorks, their anoinetd trainers and accompanying CDs, for my introduction to CAD. Once I ran into the program's shortcomings I jumped to ArchiCAD 7, a "used" license wouldn't net any reseller help and the outrageous $175 per hour they wanted for tutoring was beyond my fledgling budget. I still resent that!

So, I worked from the manuals first, then intergraded Virtual Tutor, [a wonderful foundation], but in the end still needed a "live" demo to fill in the missing links. Most of the training I've received was in the office of a seasoned user, thank you Dwight!, thank you Karl!, and the most valuable was here in my "office"over an extended visit, THANK YOU Link!!, after contacting them via ArchiCAD talk forum and soliciting their help. The local user group, a ferry ride and 50 mile round trip for me proved valuable most every time. And this forum can not be underestimated! Someone has almost had been to the same problem spot you're in right now and is more than willing to help. and the only price is you give back! a tremedous bargin.

Advice: buy the Virtual Tutor, WORK at it to build your foundation of understanding and real world questions, then get help, the best you can find. It's money you'll never regret spending and it will come back to you three-fold!

Re: Training

Erika Epstein — Tue, 03 Jan 2006 23:17:45 GMT

And get in touch with Link. He's now back in New Zealand.