topic Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible? in Modeling

Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Tue, 23 May 2023 15:08:20 GMT

Is there a way to set a preference for bathtubs, sinks, washer/dryer, etc., so they don't have a fill automatically each time you select this type of object?

Object>Object Library 10>15 Mechanical 10>Bathroom Fixtures.
Also for objects in '15 Mechanical 10' folder; and, 14 Conveying Systems 10; 13 Special Construction 10...and any other objects. Thanks.

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Dwight — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 23:25:11 GMT

I'n with you on the aggravation of stupid default fills.

Assuming that you are working from a library "Container" that preserves the Default settings for elements, the answer is "No."

But you can save the changed setting for a given element by saving it with a new name in a special folder.

File>Libraries and Objects> Seave Selection As…

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Jun 2007 05:06:23 GMT

thanks Dwight,

So I'd have to go through each individual library part and do a 'Save Selection As...' I wonder if a script could expedite this. It is definitely a nuisance especially when one changes the fixture or has a variety of bathrooms and kitchens to deal with, project after project.

Who really wants fills on objects anyway and why has Graphisoft picked a specific one for us? I hope they change it to a generic 'empty fill' in the future. Topic for a poll?

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Dwight — Sat, 09 Jun 2007 05:41:29 GMT

Perhaps you can change the appearance of the scripted fill to "empty"?

Is it the same fill every time?

It risks messing up exported files.... ?? not sure of consequence.

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Jun 2007 06:18:20 GMT

It appears to be the same fill each time.

To check what fill is being used:
Object (double click tool) and select bathtub: Parameters > Plan Symbol > Background fill type > solid + dot&dashed

SOLUTION (?):
Options > Element Attributes > Fill Types > solid + dot&dashed.
Change the 'Vectorial hatching' > Spacing: to 500 in both directions.

I can't see anyway of changing this fill to an empty 'fill' or duplicating the existing 'empty fill' (which doesn't appear on the list) and changing its name to match the above name (and deleting the original real dot&dashed fill). Although the above solution is crude, it seems to work relatively well. I'll just have to make one change per project and thus avoid making individual changes for each object I use. Thanks for the help.

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Thomas Holm — Sat, 09 Jun 2007 07:25:32 GMT

My problem is usually the background fill - with the pensets I use, Graphisoft's standard pen for background fills usually turn out light pink.

The easiiest workaround to get rid of that fil is to change that pen number to transparent in the penset. This works globally for all projuects that use the penset.

And you have to remember the same trick in every penset used, for example if you have a grey "ghost" penset to use in certain layouts, etc.

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

David Shorter — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:57:07 GMT

Best you always used to use pen 91 Thomas....

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Thomas Holm — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:43:28 GMT

David wrote:
Best you always used to use pen 91 Thomas....

If it were that simple...

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

David Shorter — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:50:11 GMT

Guys, I don't know what the standards were with other local versions but with the Aus version the default white pen has for years been pen 91 and this was reflected in ALL the aussie objects in all the libraries up to 10. In 10 the default white pen was 19 (91 was pink). In order to maintain compatability with previous library versions the aussie version default white was changed back to 91 for all objects in the library.

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:14:49 GMT

DrawingStudio wrote:
So I'd have to go through each individual library part and do a 'Save Selection As...'

No, you need to open each part in the library editor, change the default, and resave with a new name.

Who really wants fills on objects anyway and why has Graphisoft picked a specific one for us?

The problem is that the parts are looking for their cover fill by index number. It is quite common for these numbers to get jumbled and the wrong pattern comes up in the library parts. The simplest fix is to determine the index number of the fill that is being used and use Attribute Manager to replace it with the correct one. It is probably fill #85 "Empty Fill" that you need. If you are using the fill that is being replaced for other things you can reinstall it at with different index and the same name. Attribute Manager can be a little tricky (and frustrating at times) so practice on a copy of the project until your comfortable with it.

I hope they change it to a generic 'empty fill' in the future. Topic for a poll?

There have been many requests along the line. Something definitely needs to be done to fix this problem in particular and the index number problems in general.

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

TomWaltz — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:02:15 GMT

DrawingStudio wrote:
thanks Dwight,

So I'd have to go through each individual library part and do a 'Save Selection As...' I wonder if a script could expedite this. It is definitely a nuisance especially when one changes the fixture or has a variety of bathrooms and kitchens to deal with, project after project.

Who really wants fills on objects anyway and why has Graphisoft picked a specific one for us? I hope they change it to a generic 'empty fill' in the future. Topic for a poll?

I wouldn't do that. The first time GS sends out a library update, all your work would have to be redone.

A number of people around here use a module with a number or set-up objects. I've written about it a few times and Eric Bobrow has anl article on it here:
http://www.aecbytes.com/tipsandtricks/2006/issue13-archicad.html

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:51:11 GMT

TomWaltz: I wouldn't do that. The first time GS sends out a library update, all your work would have to be redone

Yeah, this was another issued I had...the fact that a plain toilet from one version is treated different in the newer version. I'll read more about Favorites and hopefully I can eliminate that problem.

MatthewLohden: The simplest fix is to determine the index number of the fill that is being used and use Attribute Manager to replace it with the correct one.

The 'default' fill on the objects i'm using was 85 and I wanted to change it to 107 Empty Fill. I went to the Options>Element Attributes>Attribute Manager and clicked some stuff, basically cancelling anything I did because I didn't know what I was doing. But now, when I Cmd-T and get Object Selection Settings for that Object, guess what, it says 107 Empty Fill. What I did to impliment this change is beyond me. I may of made sure that all 3 types of fill where selected for 107 or may of turned off the settings for #85. Anyway, it now defaults to 107 which is great. Thanks.

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:04:45 GMT

Why not use Favorites?
Joseph

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

TomWaltz — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:14:27 GMT

Joseph wrote:
Why not use Favorites?
Joseph

Many many reasons, most related to flexibility:

The biggest of which is that Favorites are PLN dependent. If you want to add, delete, or change one, you have to add it to every PLN you use. With a module, it's only a single edit and every PLN will be updated.

Another is that Favorites are impossible to Preview. Unless you have REALLY good names, you have no way of knowing what you are getting until after you click it.

Another is that the visual method allows you to group like things together VERY easily, so that kitchen, bath, MPE, or other elements can be grouped no matter what tool they are drawn with,

Another is that you can sort them by layer combinations. If you only want to see elements that make sense when working on a furniture plan and you have the Furniture layer combination on, all you will see are "Favorites" that would go on those layers.

Another is that you can use it to add attributes to your existing PLNs. Want to add a new wall type or fill to all your PLNs? Just add it to the module.

There might be others that escape me, but the built-in Favorites feature never comes close to what you can do with a good template module (or Visual Favorite as Eric calls them)

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 06:51:41 GMT

I agree with Tom. I find favorites frustrating.

Instead of leaving "Empty Fill" at index 107. You should replace it at its "correct" (or expected anyway) index of 85. The easiest way to do this is to create a blank PLN with default attributes by pressing the alt/option key to access the File > New and Reset function. Save this new file as "AC10 Defaults" or some such. Then open (or switch back to) the working file, open Attribute Manager, open the default file you just created (on the right side of the dialog), select the Fills tab, select the 85 Empty Fill on the right, and click "Overwrite" to insert it into your working file on the left. I hope this is clear.

The only hazard to be aware of in this is that if you are using the fill that is presently at index 85 for anything else, it will come up missing unless you replace it at some other index number (aside from the library parts all the other tools call fills by name).

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:40:03 GMT

I sympathize to your problem as it took me some time to figure out how to use these features:

1. In AC10 libparts come by default with an empty fill with background colour 19. I work on a white background, so I changed colour 19 to white in Element Attributes/Pens & Colours. Alas, it cannot be changed to transparent fill! In this way when a new libpart is placed on the drawing, you only see the fill when it is over another item. Check if Automatic Pen Colour Visibility Adjustment is off, otherwise fills would appear as pale gray.

2. You could also place all your libparts on the drawing and later select them all and change their background colour to transparent.

Having fills on by default is a great improvement to the productivity in my work, I find it very useful and use it all the time. Back in the old versions I used to explode my libparts to lines in order to be able to outline a sink in the bathroom!

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:01:29 GMT

I have tried to fully implement favorites as a way to help transition from version to version with a little less agony. I have used a method suggested on this forum which exports the favorites out in groups such that I import a group of favorites that is pertinent to what I am working on. I have found that favorites tend to "loose" some of their settings. Prior to this I had used a similar method to the imported module with an office standards story. I think some of the issues I have had with favorites is making me look towards the office standards module file. At some point Graphisoft has to realize the impact of transitioning from version to version and give us tools to make this transition seamless. I assume with the module method you need to use parameter transfer methods in the library dialog box to update all parts to the latest library.

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:28:21 GMT

Mike wrote:
I assume with the module method you need to use parameter transfer methods in the library dialog box to update all parts to the latest library.

Not any more, at least for parts that have an equivalent in the new library. You may have noticed that you can switch to the new library and most (if not all) the parts in the project will recognize the new parts in the library automatically.

Re: Automatic No-Fill in objects, is it possible?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:03:05 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Not any more, at least for parts that have an equivalent in the new library. You may have noticed that you can switch to the new library and most (if not all) the parts in the project will recognize the new parts in the library automatically.

Praise the Lord . I tried it on a project that is almost complete that is using 10 libraries in 11 and received no library loading errors. I didn't notice any apparent problems except for no references in section, elevation and detail markers. I think on this one I will go back to the 10 libraries, but I am very glad to hear this about library transitioning. Was this in place in 10 as well and I just didn't notice it?