topic Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?) in Modeling

Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:20:00 GMT

Hi,
By invent of Complex Profiles is Composite Walls obsolete?
If there are still advantages to Composite Walls, what are they?
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

TomWaltz — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:37:09 GMT

Composite walls redraw faster. Not a big deal on a small project but can REALLY drag down on a 50,000 SF footprint....

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:42:49 GMT

I have only recently started playing with complex walls - but from what I have seen there advantages and disadvantages to both. I think the advantages of composites over complex profiles are:
1. changes composite type of a wall does not change the height of the wall, complex profile changes do change the wall height.
2. composite walls seem to redraw faster than complex profiles (may only be an issue on older hardware)
3. I have been having issues with associated dimension lines and the ability to snap to skin lines with complex profiles, never had those problems with composites. see my post @ http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=16936

There have been some issues with door and window opening reveals, but I never thought they were perfect in composites either, so I would say one is better than the other on that account.

I do like having my sill and top plates built in to the wall though, and I need to perform and maintain fewer SEO's with the complex profiles. I can't say which is better, but I do want to use only one or the other, rather than having to maintain my office standards for walls in 2 separate places.

Perhaps some of these issues are resolved in 11, I am waiting to see.

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:43:44 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Composite walls redraw faster. Not a big deal on a small project but can REALLY drag down on a 50,000 SF footprint....

If so then Complex Profiles is the winner...

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:55:53 GMT

Scott wrote:
........, complex profile changes do change the wall height.

Could you explain this a little more?
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

TomWaltz — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:11:16 GMT

Joseph wrote:
Scott wrote:
........, complex profile changes do change the wall height.

Could you explain this a little more?
Thanks,
Joseph

by default, you cannot set the heights of a profiled wall, but you can add a "stretch zone" so that you can make them taller or shorter.

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:15:10 GMT

Profiled walls are a relatively new feature and I would be cautious about wholesale replacement of composites which have been working for a long time.

There is, for one thing, a greater chance of bugs in newer features (such as the window trim macro that malfunctioned when placed in a profiled wall). But beyond that it is often hard to predict how the necessary and/or desirable aspects of the new feature will react in all the situations that the old one has been used for.

The wall height issue is a good example of this. Composites do not predefine any wall height at all so revisions to the composite definition will have no effect on the heights of existing walls. The profiled walls do define a default wall height and any changes to the profile will reset all the existing instances to the default.

The best rule is to continue using what works, adopt new features for what you couldn't do previously, and then slowly expand their use as you become familiar with their capabilities and limitations.

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:18:23 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Joseph wrote:
Scott wrote:
........, complex profile changes do change the wall height.

Could you explain this a little more?
Thanks,
Joseph
by default, you cannot set the heights of a profiled wall, but you can add a "stretch zone" so that you can make them taller or shorter.

but sadly if you are changing profiles, even betweens profiles with a stretch zones, they don't stretch to match the height of the existing wall, they changes to the default height stored in the profile manager. so suddenly my 8' wall is now a 15" wall, that I have to change back to 8'

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Laura Yanoviak — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:00:48 GMT

Scott wrote:
but sadly if you are changing profiles, even betweens profiles with a stretch zones, they don't stretch to match the height of the existing wall, they changes to the default height stored in the profile manager. so suddenly my 8' wall is not a 15" wall, that I have to change back to 8'

I'm pretty sure they fixed this with one of the last 2 hotfixes -- what build are you on?

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:33:49 GMT

I'm on 1183, just checked for updates this morning and everything is up to date

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:51:54 GMT

Scott wrote:
I'm on 1183, just checked for updates this morning and everything is up to date

Maybe in AC11, any news on that anyone?

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

TomWaltz — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:53:59 GMT

Laura wrote:
Scott wrote:
but sadly if you are changing profiles, even betweens profiles with a stretch zones, they don't stretch to match the height of the existing wall, they changes to the default height stored in the profile manager. so suddenly my 8' wall is not a 15" wall, that I have to change back to 8'
I'm pretty sure they fixed this with one of the last 2 hotfixes -- what build are you on?

They fixed if you modify a profile of a wall (in the Profile Editor) that the non-default wall height remains the same, not if you change one wall type to another.

I think the Stretch Zone is probably way too complex to be able to transfer from one profile to another, but some programmer could prove me wrong.

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Laura Yanoviak — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:06:07 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
not if you change one wall type to another

Ah -- I missed that.

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:25:27 GMT

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:28:44 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Profiled walls are a relatively new feature and I would be cautious about wholesale replacement of composites which have been working for a long time.

There is, for one thing, a greater chance of bugs in newer features (such as the window trim macro that malfunctioned when placed in a profiled wall). But beyond that it is often hard to predict how the necessary and/or desirable aspects of the new feature will react in all the situations that the old one has been used for.

The wall height issue is a good example of this. Composites do not predefine any wall height at all so revisions to the composite definition will have no effect on the heights of existing walls. The profiled walls do define a default wall height and any changes to the profile will reset all the existing instances to the default.

The best rule is to continue using what works, adopt new features for what you couldn't do previously, and then slowly expand their use as you become familiar with their capabilities and limitations.

Gathering even more posts!

Re: Complex Profiles VS. Composite Wall (is it obsolete?)

Laura Yanoviak — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:45:46 GMT

Matthew wrote:
The profiled walls do define a default wall height and any changes to the profile will reset all the existing instances to the default.

From the bug fix list:

ID# 52809 - Profile manager: Modifying a profile resets the default size of all placed elements that use that profile.

I know (all too well) that this used to be a problem (I had gotten to the point where I created a different Complex Profile for each individual size), but it works quite nicely now.