topic Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms in Modeling

AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

PatriciaLe_o — Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:07:19 GMT

Has anyone there worked with this construction system? I'm in a project that's built with it and I'm in doubt on HOW should I construct it... The system works like a Lego, where blocks are joined and then filled with concrete. (For those who want to know what I'm talking about see www.euromac2.com or http://oikos.com/esb/40/AAB-icf.html)
I don't know if I just should use composite walls or if there is another better way....

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

Brad Elliott — Fri, 01 Sep 2006 03:39:09 GMT

I have used this system and even this manufacturer. While tempting to try to model the blocks I have found it easiest to create a composite wall and then keep my lengths and heights modular based on the system. This way if a wall needs to be modified it is much quicker than working with multiple pieces.

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

PatriciaLe_o — Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:46:50 GMT

Thanks Brad! That's what I'm trying to do, although the joints of walls and slabs are still not very good for me... I also think it strange to give dimensions based on the internal part of the wall (I made composite walls with the system and the different internal and external finishes)... The structure dimensions are made in 5 cm tolerance but the final measures... but that's part of the construction system, not an archicad problem!

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

PatriciaLe_o — Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:42:13 GMT

how could you make the juctions look like this?

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

Brad Elliott — Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:03:39 GMT

Patricia,
I'm not completely sure what I am looking at here, but it looks like two different composite slabs with a concrete curb under the wall above. I would model it that way. As long as the concrete fill is the same in every composite it should clean up for you. The only issue is it looks like you have a finish ceiling on the bottom of the slab. That I can't help you with, maybe someone else will have a suggestion.

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

PatriciaLe_o — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 00:32:31 GMT

Thanks again Brad. This image was just part of one of the houses we're doing execution project. This was made on my boss's former office, in AC7 (but don't ask me why, we only have the 2D!!!! so we have to construct all models again!) and now we (the new office) have to continue the projects of the other houses models, but with almost the same specifications... I have to try a little harder, spend more hours trying different ways... or maybe wait for more advises.

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 08:54:53 GMT

PatriciaLeão wrote:
how could you make the juctions look like this?

This looks like a no brainer...in AC10.

For a, you simply build a small brick wall, intersecting with the main wall.
For b, you have a composite wall wich does not quite intersect the main wall.
The trick is putting this wall on a different layer, with a different priority intersection value, defining the background color as white (and not transparent) and bringing it to the front in plan representation. This way it won't intersect with the main wall, it will represent itself on top of it.
As for c, I would use the brand new profile columns. They are easy to manage, and will create the desired hole in the composite wall, automatically.

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

PatriciaLe_o — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:07:30 GMT

Yeah I know... I have to improve my layers/priorities choices...
But I guess you thought it was a plan drawing... In fact it's a section, but thanks for your tips anyway Miguel.

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:20:14 GMT

PatriciaLeão wrote:
But I guess you thought it was a plan drawing... In fact it's a section.

Story of my life
In secction this would be even easier, beeing:
a) a wall, with extrude upward SEO on the slab
b) a wall
c) a beam, will open a hole in the wall.

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

PatriciaLe_o — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:40:14 GMT

This will be a hell to construct joining pieces of walls with just the structural thickness, pieces of slabs, hiding this, showing that etc etc... but I'm tuff, I'll survive!

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:51:35 GMT

Hell is in the details.

You could make your work easier, by:

First, build all your main walls.
Only when you get to the cd stage will you go into 3d detailing.
The base of the walls I would do in a different story (not a different layer).
This way, they never show up in plan and always in section.
They would be simply copypasted walls from the main floor, and then automatically changed.
The c detailing I would do with the magic wand,maybe also in a different floor.
Depending on the complexity of the design and the number of floors, this could be a matter of minutes, because most of the work would be automated. The only manual stuff would be deleting the c bits on each door

My method will give you some bonuses, for instance, you can make a quantity takeoff from all the c pieces.

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

PatriciaLe_o — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:13:31 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
Only when you get to the cd stage will you go into 3d detailing.

I'm already in the detail stage! The projects are already defined...

Krippahl wrote:
The base of the walls I would do in a different story

So your idea is to have lots of stories? Even when they don't correspond to a story!? Sounds weird to me...

Krippahl wrote:
They would be simply copypasted walls from the main floor, and then automatically changed.

How come!? Those new walls, as I understood your first suggestion, should now have different thickness ('cause they'd be just the structural concrete to join the slabs to the walls, and would not have the insulations etc) and unless their reference line construction is in the middle, they'd have to be repositioned.

Am I misunderstanding everything!?
Well, thanks again for the effort on helping me...

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:44:22 GMT

PatriciaLeão wrote:

I'm already in the detail stage! The projects are already defined...

Lucky you. Then it will be much easier

PatriciaLeão wrote:

So your idea is to have lots of stories? Even when they don't correspond to a story!? Sounds weird to me...

It is weird. I do this a lot.
Stories are a convention.
I use extra stories for a lot of stuff: 2D external data - for instance, 2d topography; ceilings; wood trusses in a roof structure, 3d exterior extras - tress, cars, whatnot.
These are 'fake' stories, which allow me to manipulate all the information without resorting to layer management (I like to keep my layers simple and few).

PatriciaLeão wrote:
... they'd have to be repositioned.

Not really.
You can set you walls in a way they are designed a given value to the left or right.
On the Geometry and Position settings, you define a negative value to the Reference Line Offset, and voila.

PatriciaLeão wrote:
Am I misunderstanding everything!?

Probably. For two portuguese to communicate in english, there is bound to be misunderstanding

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

PatriciaLe_o — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:03:53 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
Stories are a convention. I use extra stories for a lot of stuff: 2D external data - for instance, 2d topography; ceilings; wood trusses in a roof structure, 3d exterior extras - tress, cars, whatnot.
These are 'fake' stories, which allow me to manipulate all the information without resorting to layer management (I like to keep my layers simple and few).

I'm still not convinced on this... Is this a common sense!?

Krippahl wrote:
For two portuguese to communicate in english, there is bound to be misunderstanding

hehehe I must have more funny misunderstanding situations communicating here in my brazilian portuguese, although you portuguese people understand me very well because of the soap operas.

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:12:58 GMT

PatriciaLeão wrote:
I'm still not convinced on this... Is this a common sense!?

Common sense? Good question, something I never associated with CAD, I guess.
Thing is, common sense in using such a complex software like ArchiCAD isn't really that important.
If it works for you, then it is ok.
There are many means to get to the same end, its all a matter of using what suits you the best.
Having stuff in 'fake' stories that I do not want to appear in plan is a quick way to manage the information. I do not have to turn layers on and off, because I know these things won't appear in plan view, but will be there in sections and 3D.
And all my walls are in the same layer, only in different stories., so I do not get a zillion layers to manage.
Floors can have 0 height, so I can compress a lot of floors in the same space.

PatriciaLeão wrote:
although you portuguese people understand me very well because of the soap operas.

Which is something I would not go around boasting about

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

PatriciaLe_o — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:33:46 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
Thing is, common sense in using such a complex software like ArchiCAD isn't really that important. If it works for you, then it is ok.

If it's ok like this for you, great. I always like to know how other people do things, even those that are solved for me. Maybe it's ok for me, but ir can be better, faster or easier...
And thank you again for sharing your experience!

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 12:49:04 GMT

De nada.
(wellcome, for those few non portuguese speaking guys out there)

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:54:29 GMT

Hi Krippahl,

Krippahl wrote:
I use extra stories for a lot of stuff: 2D external data - for instance, 2d topography; ceilings; wood trusses in a roof structure, 3d exterior extras - tress, cars, whatnot.

And when you have to print/plot all these stuff (Caldeirada ) ?... How can you assemble all this information in a single plan using the publisher?

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:35:46 GMT

Braza wrote:
... How can you assemble all this information in a single plan using the publisher?

Using the publisher

But the point is, I put in those stories mostly stuff I don´t want to see in plan, like suspended ceilings and soffits, but still have them in sections, without resorting to layer management.

Some information is just too much to handle in a single story. For instance, you may have a complex roof, with suspended ceiling, rafters, insulation and tiles, so it becomes easier to have them in separate storys.

I also put stuff I NEVER want to see.
A good example is the 2d data the surveyor gives me.
Imagine I have an existing building, with 3 or 4 stories.
I make fake storied for each storey, and put the 2d data there.
This way, i can build it 3D in the real storey resorting to the "ghost" gizmo, without having to work with layers.

This is very important when the 2D data comes in a lot of layers, and you don't want to flatten it all into one layer.

Re: AAB Insulated Concrete Forms

PatriciaLe_o — Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:45:01 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
I put in those stories mostly stuff I don´t want to see in plan, like suspended ceilings and soffits, but still have them in sections, without resorting to layer management.

Maybe it could have been useful in AC9, but in AC10, with the new wall's "floor plan display" options... well, as you said before, if it's nice for you that way...