topic Re: Stairs in Plan view in Modeling

Stairs in Plan view

Anonymous — Thu, 25 May 2023 14:58:57 GMT

I've searched the archives because I know this has been covered before, but I can't find it.

I am trying to edit the 2D view of my stairs in a +5 story building.

I want to be able to see the top of the stairs from the story below, and only see the 1st half of the stairs on the current floor.

Right now, I am unable to figure out how to have the stairs (arrows and all) turn off appropriately. I keep having overlapping items and it is confusing.

Does this make sense?

Honestly, the cut-off lines (sections lines) in the version 11 stairs are really silly... why does it just show the continuation of the stairs beyond the cut line, wouldn't it make sense to show me whats going on underneath.

Any help would be great...thanks.

Re: Stairs in Plan view

__archiben — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:30:41 GMT

seattleguy wrote:
I want to be able to see the top of the stairs from the story below, and only see the 1st half of the stairs on the current floor.

it's not the most intuitive of things to do -

you need to turn on storey sensitivity in stair object itself and configure the various 2D representation settings accordingly.

next you need to set the stair object to show 'on home storey and one storey up'

after than comes a whole bunch of fiddling, tweaking and general messing around until you have something that "will do" - because the end result with stairs is always far from perfect.

HTH
~/archiben

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:39:24 GMT

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that ~/archiben's way (And the way I handle it) only works with the "Create New Stair." I think if you just modify a stair out of the library you are not going to be able to get it to show up correctly.? You will be able to get the upper and lower parts to show up on their own floors, but, the ups and downs and arrows won't cooperate.

Oh, and- for the create new stair/~/archiben/my way of doing this you need also to turn on "Arrow Up/Down"

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:03:32 GMT

Jesikuh123 wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, ...

I think you may be wrong, Jesikuh

You can edit stairs' properties and display parameters after creating them in the main stair dialogue.

Re: Stairs in Plan view

__archiben — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:17:27 GMT

Jesikuh123 wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that ~/archiben's way (And the way I handle it) only works with the "Create NewStair."

i never use stairmaker (the 'create new stair' option), so i know that it works for the stair objects in the library as well.

with regard to the arrow (and here is where i start a great big shit fight!) - from a graphic convention point of view, i don't believe that the arrow should show anything other than the 'up' direction anyway . . .

~/archiben

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:20:04 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
with regard to the arrow (and here is where i start a great big <b>[censored]</b> fight!) - from a graphic convention point of view, i don't believe that the arrow should show anything other than the 'up' direction anyway . . .

~/archiben

CORRECT!

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Laura Yanoviak — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:43:35 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
with regard to the arrow (and here is where i start a great big <b>[censored]</b> fight!) - from a graphic convention point of view, i don't believe that the arrow should show anything other than the 'up' direction anyway . . .

Ummmm... except the direction of egress is typically DOWN.

Regardless, we need to have more control of the 2D symbol, be it with a Stair object or StairMaker.

Re: Stairs in Plan view

__archiben — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:06:08 GMT

Laura wrote:
Ummmm... except the direction of egress is typically DOWN.

since i threw the ingredients together, i feel compelled to give it a stir too . . .

egress is not a function of the stair - it's a requirement unto itself. but maybe your regs require it to be so - i can only imagine the confusion should someone overlook the little 'up'/'dn' text. out of interest, if you had a fire escape door at a half landing level do you have one flight showing an arrow up and the other showing an arrow down all within the same stair?

Regardless, we need to have more control of the 2D symbol, be it with a Stair object or StairMaker.

. . . or any object. my complaints over most third party additions to archicad are usually 2D representation related. stair graphic convention joking aside, an object's representation must be incredibly flexible. all too often developers of objects have one idea about how it should look and ignore the possibility that another user might need something else.

~/ben

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Laura Yanoviak — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:22:28 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
egress is not a function of the stair - it's a requirement unto itself.

In commercial work, egress is typically the ONLY function of the stair (traveling between stories is what the elevator is for ).

~/archiben wrote:
out of interest, if you had a fire escape door at a half landing level do you have one flight showing an arrow up and the other showing an arrow down all within the same stair?

Yep. And this is one thing that frustrates me about the available 2D symbols -- typically it's not one or the other: from an intermediate story, one flight goes UP and the other DOWN.

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:08:14 GMT

I'm with Laura on this. That is the way I wad taught to draw them.

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:34:01 GMT

Yes, we have chatted here in the office baout this since I have read the posts here.
We have never seen it shown the way ~/archiben and s2art do it.
In any event I suppose s2art and New Zealand and Jesikuh in NY is why it is so hard to make everyone happy with software like this.

So any one searching these posts for advice on how to show stairs correctly in plan now have a couple answers to pick from.

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:24:13 GMT

The way I currently have my stairs shown in my model (via standard ArchiCAD stairmaker) is by showing it on home story and one story up with automatic UP/DOWN text. That way, the same stair will displayed correctly going UP on story 1 and going DOWN from story 2. The issue I have with this is when I mirror a copy of the stair, the text ends up upside down.

I am currently using the U-shaped stair with flat landing and the same stair is being designed on an opposite end which is why it was mirrored. The text will correspond fine if I rotate the stair, but I cannot figure how to tell Stairmaker to change the direction of the stair. Does anyone know? Is it even possible? Even when I go to create new stair, the path turns to the right and I can't see an option to have to turn to the left without mirroring. I will keep looking and if I find a solution, will post here. Hoping someone could answer by then. Thanks!

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Laura Yanoviak — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:32:23 GMT

ksymons19 wrote:
The issue I have with this is when I mirror a copy of the stair, the text ends up upside down.

Which is why we turn the "walking line" off and add our own Up/Down symbol.

ksymons19 wrote:
...but I cannot figure how to tell Stairmaker to change the direction of the stair. Does anyone know? Is it even possible?

By mirroring it... and again the 2D symbol fails.

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:34:18 GMT

Dang...and Stairmaker was SOOO close to actually being 100% functional! Guess I should've known it was too good to be true, ha.

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Laura Yanoviak — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:38:45 GMT

ksymons19 wrote:
Dang...and Stairmaker was SOOO close to actually being 100% functional!

Really? Here's my list:

If 2D symbol is mirrored, arrow text is not oriented correctly
Rail not the correct size in 2D symbol
Need to be able to turn rail off above cutline
Arrowhead above cutline does not share linetype of walking line
No hotspots at end of rails for dimensioning
Would be nice to have fill available for rails
Inner rail does not mitre when continuous
need pen for rail and walking line '2D above home story'
handrail at bottom of stair does not meet ADA

And this is just 2D stuff... don't get me started on 3D.

P.S. this list is based on AC12, although I don't think any improvements were made for AC13 (I haven't taken the time to check, tho).

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:55:30 GMT

Alright - rephrase (and I was being a little sarcastic in my recent comment) - 100% functional for our not-so-detailed stair indication on plan view. When we modeled the first stack of stairs, we got our 2D representation working without having to hide the actual stair object and the attached image shows a similar stair setup I quickly put together.

It (using the stairmaker stairs as very generic representation without having to do 2D manipulation) was obviously going fine until the mirroring occurred. Now, as you pointed out, we may have to turn off the UP/DOWN labeling and input our own in form of 2D. That will be the only 2D manipulation we have to do at this point which is why I commented it was just short of 100% functionality.

I know Stairmaker will not even be close to 100% on your list. I guess, with fitting reason, I just set the bar for Stairmaker to be real low. Unfortunately they just failed to reach even that.

Anyway, just wanted to check in and see if I was missing a big step in being able to select a direction of my stair or not.

P.S. I also haven't gone through the Stairmaker in 13 either but the one change that I did notice was that they added a new stair structure in metal stairs. It will have both closed treads and side carriage.

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:34:31 GMT

Laura wrote:
...Here's my list:

If 2D symbol is mirrored, arrow text is not oriented correctly
Rail not the correct size in 2D symbol
Need to be able to turn rail off above cutline
Arrowhead above cutline does not share linetype of walking line
No hotspots at end of rails for dimensioning
Would be nice to have fill available for rails
Inner rail does not mitre when continuous
need pen for rail and walking line '2D above home story'
handrail at bottom of stair does not meet ADA

And this is just 2D stuff... don't get me started on 3D.

While we are talking about shortcomings/desired features of the stair tool - in the user interface, you can only see the effects of changing the structure type and size (in the second button/dialog) by going back to the previous 'Geometry and Flight' button/dialog to look at the side preview. It would be more convenient to also have that preview on the second button/dialog too.

The width of the stairs should include the thickness of the stringers. If the stringer thickness changes, I shouldn't have to manually change the 'width' of the stair to compensate.

I'd like to be able to manually position the arrow head anywhere along the length of the 'walking line'.

It would also be a nice graphical touch if there was the option to extend the walk line a little bit further than the radius of the start symbol - creating a little tail.

Re: Stairs in Plan view

Laura Yanoviak — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:40:23 GMT

Peter wrote:
The width of the stairs should include the thickness of the stringers. If the stringer thickness changes, I shouldn't have to manually change the 'width' of the stair to compensate.

Ahh, yes... I guess I'm so used to compensating that I had forgotten about that one...