topic Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for buildi in Modeling

Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for buildi

rob2218 — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 22:54:06 GMT

what's the best way?
to make curved organic shaped buildings in Archicad 11?
we at our office are faced with the task this time to produce a "cell-like" organic shape for a building conceptual design.

I thought about breaking the structure, skin, floor plates, walls, etc...as components. that way I could segment rather than curve objects and walls and yet appear to be more curvelinear.

What hints could you gurus tell me?

We will most likely need to export to 3DS file for the renderer company to import and further embellish our work.

thanks for any suggestions....

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Anonymous — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 00:37:44 GMT

Hi Rob,

Although I haven't used it, the Maxonform add-on is apparently the way to go for modeling complex organic stuff for use in ArchiCAD. It is essentially a stripped down version of Cinema4D that maintains a bi-directional link between the two programs. It does cost extra though!

See here for more details:
http://www.graphisoft.com/products/archicad/solutions/maxonform.html

ArchiCAD, as standard, is fairly limited in freeform modelling tools. Sloping curved walls with a custom profile are pretty much the most 'organic' type of form available at the moment.

I'm sure people here with more experience in it can explain further if required.

Cheers,

Pete.

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 04:09:44 GMT

Yet, a MaxonForm update and add-on has not been released for 11 yet AFAIK...and it is unknown when it will be supported for MacIntel...

MaxonForm page:
http://www.graphisoft.com/products/archicad/solutions/maxonform.html

MaxonForm support page - last 'news' was AC 10 update on August 3, 2006:
http://www.graphisoft.com/support/maxonform/

Wiki page:
http://www.archicadwiki.com/MaxonForm?highlight=%28maxonform%29

It is interesting that GS does not even say "Coming soon for AC 11..." What are users to think?

Karl

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

owen — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 01:59:27 GMT

Karl wrote:
It is interesting that GS does not even say "Coming soon for AC 11..." What are users to think?

Simple .. never, ever trust Graphisoft to maintain your workflow when they release new versions if you rely on any of their add-ons (even if you paid money for them).

Do not upgrade until everything you use now is available in the new version - you never know, sometimes it might take another whole release before it happens!

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

TomWaltz — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:25:57 GMT

Karl wrote:
It is interesting that GS does not even say "Coming soon for AC 11..." What are users to think?

I think that's the reason I avoid 3rd party add-ons as much as I can!

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Bricklyne Clarence — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:40:24 GMT

Karl wrote:
Yet, a MaxonForm update and add-on has not been released for 11 yet AFAIK...and it is unknown when it will be supported for MacIntel...

MaxonForm page:
http://www.graphisoft.com/products/archicad/solutions/maxonform.html

MaxonForm support page - last 'news' was AC 10 update on August 3, 2006:
http://www.graphisoft.com/support/maxonform/

Wiki page:
http://www.archicadwiki.com/MaxonForm?highlight=%28maxonform%29

It is interesting that GS does not even say "Coming soon for AC 11..." What are users to think?

Karl

Well, obviously the large reason for that is the fact that MAxonform's development is more dependent on the third party (Maxon) than it is on Graphisoft and their upgrade schedule - unlike some of Graphisoft's other 3rd party plugins. And I don't get the impression that Maxonform is a priority development for Maxon, despite the fact that both companies are now owned by the same people (Nemetschek). Especially when you consider the fact that Maxonform was based on a version (v9) behind the latest C4D engine (v10) as opposed to keeping it current.

This is what I've always hated about Graphisoft's third-party developer philosophy; the fact that more often than not it depends more on the third-party than Graphisoft which leads to scheduling problems inasfar as new releases are concerned (especially now with the new 1 year cycle), and cross-platform plugins (see Sketchup import plugin saga,) and most importantly, problems with the integration of the plugins with ArchiCAD's workflow and user interface (lack of bi-directional parametricity ala Maxonform). Some work well enough (Cigraph, Cadimage, Encina, Maxwell) but most just tend lag behind. It's something that Graphisoft seriously needs to address either by developing a better coordination with their third-party partners, or improving the tools of ArchiCAD to eliminate the necessity for so many third-party options.

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

owen — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:15:06 GMT

Bricklyne wrote:
Well, obviously the large reason for that is the fact that MAxonform's development is more dependent on the third party (Maxon) than it is on Graphisoft and their upgrade schedule .. And I don't get the impression that Maxonform is a priority development for Maxon .. Especially when you consider the fact that Maxonform was based on a version (v9) behind the latest C4D engine (v10) as opposed to keeping it current.

I'm not so sure this has anything to do with Maxon actually. I very much doubt they would have continued to work on a version of C4D which has been superseded. The ArchiCAD 10 Mactel version of Maxonform, based on R9.5 was not finished until almost 5 months after R10 was released.

If Maxon were responsible for development, I would think they'd at least keep the AC<>C4D add-on up-to-date with the current C4D release as it would help their upgrade sales with AC users.

The other side of this is that it is not in Graphisofts' interest (financial at least) to release a cheap add-on which would allow users to interface to their own full C4D ahead of releasing their own MaxonForm app. Why? Well from memory the add-on cost us around $AU 100 compared to $AU 700-800 for the app. A full license of C4D R10 Architecture Bundle only cost us $2000 .. which includes modules like Advanced Render (radiosity, etc), 3D object collections, etc. Not much of a decision really is it?

But maybe i'm just too sceptical about these things..

I'm pretty sure Graphisoft actually licenses the C4D modeling engine and develops the MaxonForm application, add-on and plugin themselves .. this is why there is a lag behind the full version of C4D. There was also a post or two from Gabor saying they (GS) were working on it which indicates this is the case - there may be a little input from Maxon but the bulk of the work is done by GS.

As far as I know Maxon are generally ahead of the game when it comes to developing their apps ... they had a released a Universal Binary version of C4D even before Apple had released its own UB software. Another reason i doubt this delay in updating MaxonForm has anything do with Maxon.

anyway, hopefully we will see MaxonForm for AC 11 - based on R10.x - out soon, no matter who's responsible

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:57:25 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Karl wrote:
...... I avoid 3rd party add-ons as much as I can!

Tried avoiding, but can not, and almost always in PAIN.
Joseph

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 12:00:23 GMT

a VERY quick VERY simple cell can be made by using the Basic Shape elements - either the sphere or semisphere - you can also make it hollow by using a slightly smaller Basic Shape of the same configuration and use SEo to hollow it out.

If it's conceptual you might be able to get away with it like that...

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 12:03:00 GMT

oh, and the best way is the way of Mrs Cosmopolite

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Eniko Pauko — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:22:52 GMT

Karl wrote:
Yet, a MaxonForm update and add-on has not been released for 11 yet AFAIK...and it is unknown when it will be supported for MacIntel...

Karl

Dear Talkers,

Please let me inform you that expected release of MaxonForm for ArchiCAD 11 add-on is early August.

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Bricklyne Clarence — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:28:55 GMT

Eniko wrote:
Karl wrote:
Yet, a MaxonForm update and add-on has not been released for 11 yet AFAIK...and it is unknown when it will be supported for MacIntel...

Karl
Dear Talkers,

Please let me inform you that expected release of MaxonForm for ArchiCAD 11 add-on is early August.

Is it possible to know if it will be based on C4D's v9.xx or it's v!0.xx engine?

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

owen — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:57:07 GMT

taken from here .. which got slightly OT

owen wrote:
gkovacsp wrote:
owen wrote:
I'm also wondering why the C4D interface add-on is taking longer than the MaxonForm app itself, when you would think it provides the same functionality as is required to get the ArchiCAD model into/out-of MaxonForm - which is just C4D Lite no?
It will provide the same functionality on a newer (C4D 10) version of the application + it will support the Intel Mac platform - that's why it takes more.

Of course the other choice is to delay MaxonForm until C4D10 compatible version is ready...
...
Ok now i'm a little confused .. does this mean that the AC11 compatible MaxonForm app is still based on C4D R9 whereas the add-on will allow for AC11 to interface with a standalone C4D R10?
...
This makes sense and i completely understand why the add-on will take longer - I had made the assumption both would be upgraded to C4D R10.
...

So to me at least it seems that the app is still based on R9 whereas the interface add-on will be for R10.

If it's not then i don't think my original point was answered by Gabor .. the AC interface function (i.e the Add-On) - is one of the require functions for the MaxonForm application...

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Eniko Pauko — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:31:09 GMT

Bricklyne wrote:
Is it possible to know if it will be based on C4D's v9.xx or it's v!0.xx engine?

MaxonForm is based on C4D 9.xx since ages because there are no important modeling enhancements compared to C4D 10, so we have not developed a MF based on C4D 10. This means also, that the add-on developed for MaxonForm is also compatible with C4D 9.xx
Currently we are working on an add-on/plug-in solution for C4D 10, that will be available in early September by our expectations.

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Bricklyne Clarence — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 16:35:21 GMT

Eniko wrote:
Bricklyne wrote:
Is it possible to know if it will be based on C4D's v9.xx or it's v!0.xx engine?
MaxonForm is based on C4D 9.xx since ages because there are no important modeling enhancements compared to C4D 10, so we have not developed a MF based on C4D 10. This means also, that the add-on developed for MaxonForm is also compatible with C4D 9.xx
Currently we are working on an add-on/plug-in solution for C4D 10, that will be available in early September by our expectations.

That's good to know. Thanks for the response.

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

rob2218 — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:19:08 GMT

I hear that Maxon forms will be available for Archicad 11 mid August 2007 (this year?) is this true? is there a more specific date in mind??

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Eniko Pauko — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:01:20 GMT

rob2218 wrote:
I hear that Maxon forms will be available for Archicad 11 mid August 2007 (this year?) is this true? is there a more specific date in mind??

Yes, it is true.

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Paul King — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 10:40:45 GMT

You could always get the AC11 Maxonform addon from Maxonform website - it is there.

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Eniko Pauko — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 10:50:00 GMT

Paul wrote:
You could always get the AC11 Maxonform addon from Maxonform website - it is there.

Maxon creates an add-on for ArchiCAD, but it is not the same: it is developed for C4D originally for visualization and animation purposes. It does not provide bidirectional connection for creating and editing organic shapes, only enables the export of the ArchiCAD model to C4D.

Re: Archicad 11 and "curved" organic shapes for bu

Paul King — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 10:56:35 GMT

Oops - my bad