topic Re: Interior Elevations in Modeling

Interior Elevations

kevin b — Fri, 26 May 2023 13:18:26 GMT

I am trying to find out how the power users out there are doing interior elevations. Over the last few years (and versions of AC) we have tried a variety of methods, none of which seem perfect, and maybe there is no perfect answer yet.

In a perfect world, it would seem to me that you should be able to model something, (to keep it simple lets say a room that has a piece of casework along one wall base cabinet with sink and an open upper cabinet with shelves) apply materials to those objects so the model renders correctly, the lineweights and fills should all appear correctly in plan view (with that view linked/ imported directly to plotmaker), an interior elevation marker of some sort could be placed in the plan view which is linked to a generated elevation, the lineweights in that generated elevation would be correct (ie. edges of casework bolder than lines on face and so on) that elevation view is imported to plotmaker and moving its location in the layout book updates the plan symbols. You should also be able to place a section or detail marker on that elevation, wich generates a section detail through the cabinets, again with all the lineweights being correct, imported into plotmaker, with symbols linked, etc etc.

Maybe I am doing something wrong, maybe I was taught the wrong way and am missing something in newest version, maybe it just can't be done yet, but I can't get all of these things to happen at once without faking it. Some markers aren't linked and have to be tracked and updated manually, and/or lineweights of elevations are all the same, either have to trace over lines, redraw manually, place interior elevation generated lines in another window and change weights, etc., independent details are used but are linked to markers, etc etc etc.

I'd like to hear how everyone else is doing it, the results they get, pros and cons, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Re: Interior Elevations

Anonymous — Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:23:56 GMT

I use the section tool with an interior elevation symbol. In AC9 we can now drag the marker around (when set to "elevation"), so I drag the interior markers to fit together or wherever is needed for the particular room or project.

This works just as you describe in your perfect world, but it is up to you make sure the line weights work (this takes setting up and enforcing standards).

Re: Interior Elevations

Anonymous — Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:23:55 GMT

The section tool with interior elevation marker is what we use too. You then have the option of using the "as placed in plotmaker option". I then unlink the view and drag a copy of the elevation a set distance up to edit the 2D qualities. This way I can regenerate the view from the model as it changes and only drag a copy of the changes as needed to the view above. We have not yet started using the "as in plotmaker" since the background archicad was so buggy when it appeared we returned to pmk files and have no tried it again yet. Being able to use the section tool in section/elevation itself would be a big plus.

Re: Interior Elevations

kevin b — Mon, 03 Jan 2005 13:04:43 GMT

Thanks guys, anyone else out there do anything different?

We have tried the method you describe Matthew and had the same problems Eric talks about, having to "edit the 2d qualities" if by that he means making the lineweight work. We do have set standards and I try to enforce them, the problem is that I don't see how you can do it without creating custom objects and even then I don't see how that works. If we take the cabinet example and simplify things to 3 lineweights (for the sake of argument) with 3 being heaviest and 1 being lightest. In plan the cabinet would be pen 1 with adjacent walls being 3. In elevation, the top edge of the countertop should be 3 while the underside should be 2 and the face lines of doors, drawers, etc should be 1. I don't see how there is anyway to do this with the program as it currently stands. I'd love it for somebody to prove me wrong. Even when we do custom casework with walls and slabs etc. to show up in the model, the slabs as say countertop should be pen 1 in plan but 3 in elevation.

It is very frustrating trying to explain to new users how the program works when you extol all the virtues and how everything is linked and automatic and you just draw (build) things once, and then have to say no you can't do that, we just trace over the elevation with lines to make them look right when plotted (or whatever other workaround you use).

Matthew- using the method you describe, how do you get your lineweights to work, or do you accept that the elevations lines are all the same?

Re: Interior Elevations

Link — Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:36:40 GMT

Excuse me for jumping in here, but I think I can help you go a long way to achieving your goal. A lot of it has to do with a common misconception of PlotMaker. As it currently functions PlotMaker can and IMHO should be used for controlling lineweights, especially for unique situation like this. It's really very powerful.

Firstly, try taking a look under the 'Cut Elements' tab of your S/E tool. You'll see a checkbox to 'Use Cut Elements' Own Pencolors'. For your internal elevations, let's say you uncheck this and effectively override the pens with, for this example, pen 20 for your outlines and pen 19 for your fills. Then under the 'Model Effects' tab of your S/E tool there is a checkbox for 'Uniform Pencolor for Uncut Elements'. You could check that and assign the pen for all of these uncut elements to, for this example, pen 18.

Now when you place these interior elevation views in PlotMaker, you can select the drawing and edit it's properties (ctrl/cmd+T). But before you do that go to Options>Preferences>Drawing Attributes... and uncheck Pens & Colors. This effectively allows you to override pens & colors for every drawing placed in PlotMaker. Also make sure 'Uniform Pens & Colors for Drawings and Book' is unchecked in the same dialog, as that will allow you to define different pens & colors for different placed drawings.

So now you can select your interior elevations - and you can select them all at once, either on the sheet or in Drawing Usage. Edit their settings and under the 'Attributes Update Rules' tab make sure 'Same as in Preferences' is checked. Under the 'Attributes' tab hit the 'Edit Pens' button. In the next dialog, you can see all the pens that have come in from ArchiCAD. Now you can select pens 18, 19 and 20 and assign them whatever pen weight you like.

The key to this is to make sure that pens 18, 19 and 20 are not being used anywhere else in these views, so you may want to make them special pens that, as an office standard, are only used for this very purpose. Not only can you assign pen weights, but also pen colors. For this you will need to assign all pen colors and print/plot to color, so this will involve mapping a lot of pens to black, depending on how you have set up your pen & color scheme for your office. It may seem like a lot of work, but don't forget that this can all be part of an office template that can be set in place before the model is even built.

Hope that opens the box a little more for you.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Interior Elevations

kevin b — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 16:56:18 GMT

Link
Thanks for taking the time to jump in, much appreciated. I still think I am missing something or maybe not explaining my dilemma clearly enough. I have no problem putting in the work to set up templates and standards (I am constantly tweaking those I have already set up for the office) We in fact do change penweights in plotmaker for unique situations already, although for the most part we use uniform pens and colors to keep it simply for most users, but that's another story.

If I am using the S/E tool to do Interior Elevations, the "cutline" is some distance away from the face of the cabinet (in my original scenario) therefore, using the method you describe, all of the lines in the elevation of my cabinet are pen 18 (from your method) which still does not address what I am looking for. The only thing that would be cuts and fills would be floors and walls bounding the space. Being able to change the lineweights in Plotmaker really doesn't help me in this situation. It does let me have a different lineweight in the plan view and elevation view of the same object, so it fixes one issue, but it does not let me have different weights for different edges in the same object, which is really the biggest problem I have.

Based on hand drafting standards, which is what partners/principals who have no CAD skills want to see, the outside edges of this cabinet should be a heavier line than the lines on the face. I would think that this is an issue that everyone out there has to deal with as this is common drafting practice. The way I see it there are three possible answers to the question:
1. everyone is doing some sort of workaround? (And if everyone is doing a workaround then isn't that something that should be addressed in the software?)
2. this notion of the outside edges of an object in elevation being heavier than the lines on the face is not a standard that others use?
3. I am just not doing something right?

Re: Interior Elevations

Link — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 17:19:54 GMT

You're on the right track mate. I think there are two routes you can take to further solve your problem:

1. As you have already mentioned, draw lines over the edges you would like darker. No this is not automatic, but on a better note, there is no need to turn your elevetion into a drawing to do this.

2. Use the 'Marked Distant Area' in your S/E tool and set the options under the 'Distant Area Options' tab. This won't be perfect (eg. you can't stagger this distant line), but you may be able to position it to suit your needs. It would be possible to punch out the counter top edge, but not *just* the outline of the cabinet.

Hope that at least lets you know where you stand.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Interior Elevations

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:21:15 GMT

Great topic.

The amount of 2d linework effort we put into our sections and elevations to get to an "acceptable" printed drawing at times seems excessive. Especially if you have manage all that linework (and fills) through design changes.

We effectively retrace the elevation "live" using about 3 different line weights to profile edges. Then we add fills and patches to add texture, cover irrelevant or badly modeled parts.

This has been on on going debate in the office, balancing printed output against time to retrace the model. Of course it all hinges on what is "acceptable" output.

I am curious to know what others out there deem most effective for their practice. Would anybody be interested in posting some example drawings and explain how they where produced? If so what would be the best way to share these drawings?

Thanks.

Re: Interior Elevations

Aussie John — Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:56:32 GMT

In the end I am no sure if it is worth retracing. As it is I put in extra 2d info to make the elevations look good. eg tile patterns, elevations views of toilets basins etc. When ever there is a change this info is never updated automatically.

On a side point to facilitate setting the elevation line up a feature that would be good if the section line was linked to a wall so if the wall is moved the end of the line moves with it.

Re: Interior Elevations - Marker Size

Andy Thomson — Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:09:04 GMT

Anyone know how to make the 'elevation' marker for doing interior elevations smaller? No matter what scale I set, or pt size I set the marker to, it remains the same. We are using PM autotext references.

All other section/elevation markers are scaleable - the text in 'elevation' - the marker that looks like an interior elevation marker has scaleable text, and a button to set marker size, but we can get marker size to change in mac or pc platforms - any ideas??

Andy

Re: Interior Elevations

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:56:50 GMT

Interesting topic. Here is what I do to get my lineweights the way I want in Plotmaker to print correctly. (I was told this is a truly stupid way to setup my plan and PMK files, but for around two hours of work I have great control over how my plans print, and once done, it is reused for each subsequent project.)

AC has the ability to use 255 pens, and I have assigned most of the 255 pens in my template to either a layer, 2D line type or material. To keep track of each pen setting, I exported from AC all the layers I use, each layer combination, and each material to an excel spreadhsheet. I then assign each of the above a different pen number, and pen weight.(15 minutes)

In the plan file, cabinets, plumbing, shelving, interior walls, interior bearing walls, exterior walls, exterior patio walls, brick, stucco, etc, etc, all have different pens assigned. For materials, I actually only assign pens from the spreadsheet to the materials I use. If I use a new material I assign the pen setting at that time.(max 1 hour)

In Plotmaker, I can control the lineweighs by using a PMK pen settings file for each type of plan, such as framing, floor, foundation, etc.(1 hour)

For example, for an interior bearing wall, I might assign pen 21. In my framing plan PMK pen settings file, pen 21 is assigned a very heavy pen weight so the interior bearing wall prints dark. But, in my floor plan PMK pen settings line weight, pen 21 is set to the same lineweight as used for a regular interior wall. Same pen number, but different printing affect.

Since I am usually only using a dozen or so different pens in each plan, it took me a couple of hours to setup the excel file, the project template, and each of my PMK pen settings files.

The key is to make use of as many of the 255 pens allowed and then using a PMK pen settings file to make each plan lineweight really stand out.

Grant

Re: Interior Elevations

Anonymous — Sat, 29 Jan 2005 04:45:04 GMT

I like the idea, if it can save me hours of adding extra 2D lines later for each print etc. Will explore this

Re: Interior Elevations

Djordje — Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:53:17 GMT

NOELDESIGNS wrote:
Interesting topic. Here is what I do to get my lineweights the way I want in Plotmaker to print correctly. (I was told this is a truly stupid way to setup my plan and PMK files, but for around two hours of work I have great control over how my plans print, and once done, it is reused for each subsequent project.)

It is so "stupid" I am going to copy it into the Tips&Tricks section now.

Re: Interior Elevations

Ben Cohen — Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:28:48 GMT

Matthew wrote:
In AC9 we can now drag the marker around (when set to "elevation"), so I drag the interior markers to fit together or wherever is needed for the particular room or project.
.

COOL Thanks Mathew, I didnt realize this one. Now I can make a elevation marker that is one portion of a standard interior marker then combine 4 together to create one "linked" elevation marker

Cheers

Ben

Re: Interior Elevations

Ben Cohen — Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:20:13 GMT

There you go. I tried this in 8.1 but because the marker could not be moved it was very cumbersome, this is sweet. Note I have separated a couple of the markers to show how they fit together. The pink lines are the actual section cut. I love it . I gotta say, 9 is just full of these hidden jems

Cheers

Ben

Re: Interior Elevations

Anonymous — Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:43:02 GMT

Are people involved in this discussion creating their own markers or are there markers that ship with archicad that allow the desired result. The only marker I could find will auto tag a drawing and sheet number in the middle of the marker, but is numbered with drawing numbers that need to be changed manually around the exterior.

Re: Interior Elevations

Erika Epstein — Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:25:23 GMT

Ben,
I know one can drag the marker heads around, but I cannot figure out how you split that marker into 4 pieces!
Care to share?
thanks,

Re: Interior Elevations

Ben Cohen — Thu, 03 Feb 2005 01:36:10 GMT

I had to create one (actually hack an existing one). Very little GDL needed just a bit of cut and paste. Message me with your email and I will send it to you

Ben

Re: Interior Elevations

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:35:54 GMT

Anyone know how to make the 'elevation' marker for doing interior elevations smaller? No matter what scale I set, or pt size I set the marker to, it remains the same. We are using PM autotext references.

All other section/elevation markers are scaleable - the text in 'elevation' - the marker that looks like an interior elevation marker has scaleable text, and a button to set marker size, but we can get marker size to change in mac or pc platforms - any ideas?

I have the same issue. Seems to me there is a quality control problem in the GDL department of Graphisoft. There are many other library parts that they almost get right, almost usable even

Re: Interior Elevations

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 23:55:51 GMT

This is the one I use most...