topic Re: Different claddings, one wall in Modeling

Different claddings, one wall

Jere — Thu, 25 May 2023 14:36:30 GMT

I apologise if this has been covered before, I've been searching for quite some time and haven't found the answer yet.

Basically, I have a wall that has brick or CMU for the first metre or so, topped with a sloped sill, and stucco on the upper half of the building. Without using an add-on or GDL, how can I properly model this wall? It doesn't need to be perfect as I can fix it up in a detail window, but it should be fairly accurate.

Here's what I was thinking of doing, let me know what you think:
Solution #1:
Step 1: Draw full height wall with drywall, studs, sheathing, stucco.
Step 2: Draw another "dummy" wall to the height of the top of the sill and by using SEO, subtract the the stucco from the full height wall.
Step 3: Draw another wall representing the brick.
Step 4: Model the sill using slabs? roofs?

Question: if I do this, what do I do about doors/windows that are located in both parts. Just put the doors/windows in the main wall and add empty openings in the brick wall?

Solution #2:
Step 1: Draw two stacked composite; one with stucco, one with masonry.
Step 2: Model sill same as above.

Again, what would I do with doors windows in this case? Should the stacked composites be on different stories?

Thanks for your help.
Jere

Re: Different claddings, one wall

TomWaltz — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 15:04:04 GMT

I just answered this in another post of yours I think, but in Archicad 10 the ability to make complex walls like you describe is one of the major new features.

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Jere — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:15:02 GMT

Thank you for responding Tom. But without using AC10, how would you approach this?

Re: Different claddings, one wall

TomWaltz — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:45:07 GMT

Until now, I always split the veneers from the main wall, so that brick wall would be a separate short wall in front of the taller stud wall. The sills were meshes (so you could slope the top and not the bottom if you wanted)

I think your idea would work. You could probably use your sill to subtract the stucco, no need for an extra dummy wall for that purpose.

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Ignacio Azpiazu — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 20:47:41 GMT

For different wall finishes I use RevealMaker, which is a window object that cuts grooves into the wall and allows you to define the height, depth, material for each --so that you can have a 3 ft high 1/4" deep horizontal 'groove' with brick material, a deeper 6 ft high one with a stucco material, etc. It looks great in perspectives and elevations, doesn't mess up the windows, you drag the wall and the window object moves along with it, you stretch the wall and the grooves stretch.

If I didn't have RevealMaker I would first try to get the thing done with a really long shallow 'wall niche' window object (in 04 Masonry in the US library) and do pretty much the same thing.

There are add-ons that do this beautifully and give you a lot of control, but you have to pay for them, update them, and everybody who opens the project needs to have them.

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Brad Elliott — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 21:19:07 GMT

Here's how I do it.
1. Make a full height stucco wall. Use wall accessories battered wall to create the brick. The benefit is that it automatically updates door and window openings.
2. Set it to the proper thickness from stud and clean up stucco behind in 2d wall sections.
3. Draw a thin wall at proper height for sill and add empty door openings.
4. Mutter under your breath. It's a hassle but in reality probably still faster than just 2d drawing and really does approximate correct in all other views.
5. Hope that 10 really does make this easier.

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 23:08:57 GMT

Tom, can you post a link to the post where you discuss this matter in terms of Archicad 10? The one you mentioned in your 1st post.

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Jere — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:45:29 GMT

thanks everyone. I looked at revealMaker. For $100US i think i'll pass.

Tom, i've been trying your method, with a full height stucco wall, mesh for sill with downward subtraction, and separate wall for brick/block veneer. Everything works well, except for some reason the block veneer wall shows up through the sill mesh. I can not figure out how to get it to not show. I've played with the Display Order and that hasn't really worked. Am I doing something wrong?

edit: further, my floor slab also shows through the sills.

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Jere — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:40 GMT

image attached:

Re: Different claddings, one wall

TomWaltz — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:24:36 GMT

Jere wrote:
thanks everyone. I looked at revealMaker. For $100US i think i'll pass.

Tom, i've been trying your method, with a full height stucco wall, mesh for sill with downward subtraction, and separate wall for brick/block veneer. Everything works well, except for some reason the block veneer wall shows up through the sill mesh. I can not figure out how to get it to not show. I've played with the Display Order and that hasn't really worked. Am I doing something wrong?

edit: further, my floor slab also shows through the sills.

Do you mean that they show through in plan? If so, turn on the cover fill of your sill and make sure the backgrounds are set to a solid color (usually 91)

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Jere — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:55:01 GMT

yes, on the plan (see picture above.)

Not sure what a cover fill is or how I turn it on.

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Jere — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:57:15 GMT

here are the current settings of the sill mesh:

Re: Different claddings, one wall

TomWaltz — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:09:56 GMT

ah bugger! Cover fills were added in Archicad 9.

You must be really sick of me telling you stuff like that!

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Jere — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:13:24 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
ah bugger! Cover fills were added in Archicad 9.

You must be really sick of me telling you stuff like that!

nope, just sick of you not giving me a straight answer. just kidding!

Is there nothing I can do? I suppose I could draw a white fill over top, but there's got to be a better way..

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Ignacio Azpiazu — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:20:20 GMT

Jere wrote:
thanks everyone. I looked at revealMaker. For $100US i think i'll pass.

Heh I understand the feeling and it makes sense not to invest in an object unless you are sure you will make a profit from it.

I would just like to stress that with RevealMaker the return on investment in my case has been huge. I bought it with AC 7 (it must have been around at least since AC 6.5) and have used it in every single project. The good thing about objects is that they just work forever (very rarely does an object need minimal GDL tweaking with a new AC release). In mi case it has been $100 in say 5 years which is like $1.66 a month and it has saved me *hours* of 2D patch-ups and coordination mess-ups and SEO operator-chasing-around *every single month*, and I know I will keep on using it with AC10 with its profiled wall functionality and all.

The same goes for SidingMaker ($50 or something), which I don't use in every project but which saves me a lot of work, or just allows me to do things I wouldn't even try to do without it, when I use it.

I do think these objects or objects with similar functionality should be part of the standard AC library and hate having to pay extra for them, but that is a separate discussion. They easily pay for themselves in the first project you use them and they are pure profit after that.

Re: Different claddings, one wall

SeaGeoff — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 21:40:42 GMT

Another add-on worth considering is Cadimage's Accessory Tools
http://www.cadimagetools.com/home.php?page=products&productID=168
I have not used them but have heard they are great. There is a wall cladding component, among others.

Re: Different claddings, one wall

David Pacifico — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 13:29:41 GMT

The same goes for SidingMaker ($50 or something)

I think you ment 3D Horizontal and Vertical Siding Accessory 3.3 or Parch Tools Siding. More Info HERE
Works with 9.0 and 10.0

Re: Different claddings, one wall

TDabney — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 20:50:38 GMT

Geoff wrote:
Another add-on worth considering is Cadimage's Accessory Tools
http://www.cadimagetools.com/home.php?page=products&productID=168
I have not used them but have heard they are great. There is a wall cladding component, among others.

I just bought this - mostly for the siding/cladding part. I've only spent a little bit of time w/it doing some board & batt siding and some lap siding and it's great. I have reveal maker as well , but was looking for a quicker/easier way to do board & batts. It seems fairly flexible and the roof acccessories look useful as well. It definitely take some computer horsepower though.

Tom

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Jere — Fri, 09 Jun 2006 14:45:04 GMT

Jere wrote:
Everything works well, except for some reason the block veneer wall shows up through the sill mesh. I can not figure out how to get it to not show. I've played with the Display Order and that hasn't really worked. Am I doing something wrong?

edit: further, my floor slab also shows through the sills.

anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? I'm considering making a "block veneer" storey with zero height, but don't want to if I don't have to.

Re: Different claddings, one wall

Ignacio Azpiazu — Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:46:34 GMT

David wrote:
The same goes for SidingMaker ($50 or something)
I think you ment 3D Horizontal and Vertical Siding Accessory 3.3 or Parch Tools Siding.

I was talking about SidingMaker,
http://www.objectsonline.com/customer/product.php?productid=115706
which is an object.

The parch tool looks cool, I was not aware of it. And some time ago I bought the Cadimage package too. Because I need to share the files I am working on and/or work on the same files in different computers, I have actually not got to use the Cadimage pack at all (with the object I just put it in the project library and that's all I need to do, and I know it will work in AC10 and most probably AC11 too, just as it has since AC7). It would be a different story if I were doing a lot of work on my own, and for that situation the add-ons are a very powerful tool.