topic Re: SEO in Modeling

SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 23 May 2023 13:34:58 GMT

Is there any way to tell if an Archicad element
is participating in an SEO either as a target or operator ?
Perhaps in a way similar to how one can tell if an object
or wall has been cut by a roof by looking in the settings
of the selected element.
Thank you,
Peter Devlin

Re: SEO

Dwight — Mon, 04 Jul 2005 23:00:55 GMT

trim to near it with the marquee, 3D the scene, delete it and see what changes around it - it can't be an operator if it isn't in an operator layer, however.

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Jul 2005 23:39:11 GMT

Hello Dwight,
As you state, deleting an element that you suspect is an operator
and seeing what changes is one way.
The second part of your comment puzzles me.
You say:
"it can't be an operator if it isn't in an operator layer, however."
What is an operator layer ?
I can have an operator on any layer I want hidden or not
and its operator function is not affected.
I have a layer called "Hidden Operators" but this is just for convenience.

The thrust of my question was, is there a way to select an element
and view it's properties and find out if it is participating in an SEO.
When working on a project that has been worked on by others
one needs to know if there are SEOs in the project and what
they are. I was hoping there was a way of getting this information.

Thanks,
Peter Devlin

Re: SEO

Dwight — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 00:20:06 GMT

Real answer:

You'd only cut something if your cutter was invisible, and enabled.
You make the elements in a layer invisible by using the wireframe symbol in the layer setting - this enables their cutting action.

If only they would cut grease as well as new "Vim".

I called that wireframe layer an operator layer. Many users also name this layer SEO or something.

If your team was organized along these lines, then a simple selection of everything in the single operator layer would tell you all of your operators, and, hence, your potential victims, because once your operators are selected the SEO box allows you to add to the selection all their targets.

It is confusing to have many SEO layers - I stick to one.

Sorry I was flip before - you made me figure it out.

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 00:20:27 GMT

I don't believe there is a way of establishing whether an object is part of a SEO. We have a protocol where all operators in SEO's (and objects used for crude 'made from the model' GDL objects) are on a specific, wireframe, 'SEO & GDL' layer, on the basis that, generally speaking, we use SEO's for subtraction. Since these operators are not required to be visible in the model the layer is hidden when SEOs are complete.

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 00:59:20 GMT

Dwight,
You say:
"You'd only cut something if your cutter was invisible, and enabled.
You make the elements in a layer invisible by using the wireframe symbol in the layer setting - this enables their cutting action. "

Many times, I have situations where I want the operator to be visible.
For instance, When I cut the top of a wall with a roof and I want
to see the roof as well as the wall and I don't want the roof to show
in wireframe but solid. I can do this because it is not true that
as you state "by using the wireframe symbol in the layer setting - this enables their cutting action. "

[The cutting action does not derive from being on a wireframe type layer.]
Is the above statement wrong ?
Your statements make me think that maybe I am wrong.
What am I missing ?
Thank you,
Peter Devlin

Re: SEO

Dwight — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 01:07:26 GMT

I am wrong. again.
I was taught that way and never questioned it.

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 01:20:16 GMT

Mike,
I believe you are right there is no direct way to know if
there are SEOs in a project and if so what operations and where.

This whole business started for me when I did an SEO in a project,
saved the project, closed it, and quit.
When I opened the project again, AC had forgotten the SEO, so
I made the SEO again, saved, and closed.
When I opened the project again AC had again forgotten the SEO.
I am testing it again to see if it happens again.

It would be nice to have a way to find out if,where, and what
SEO operations exist in a project.
One for the wish list.
Thank you,
Peter Devlin

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 08:52:49 GMT

Peter

That is weird. I have never encountered the situation where SEO's have been forgotten!! Perhaps you have encountered a BUG. If so, you are best advised to contact your reseller so that they can raise this issue with GS on your behalf.

Re: SEO

Stephen Dolbee — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:11:38 GMT

I have found that SEO's fail when the roof (operator) has degenerated for some reason. This has happened to me when a skylight is placed too close to the ridge (and the edge of the skylight hole is horizontal-which seems to be the default). Could the problem be caused by something like that?

Steve

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 15:04:36 GMT

SEOs are still a bit quirky, and I dearly am wishing for an SEO Manager, but they are MUCH more robust than when they first appeared.

I have seen AC "forget" an SEO here and there. It seems not to like thin roofs as operators, and I have had an occasion where a slab as operand would not stick where it had a hole under the particular roof (if I recall correctly).

I have also had a problem in which I cut the top floor walls to a roof soffit/bottom-chord slab which was in turn trimmed to the roofs above. Though it worked at first, the 3D modeling eventually ground to a halt. Since most of the cut elements were in modules, there were over 1000 operands (most of which were not cut), so this is an atypical, and a bit extreme, situation. I fixed it simply by using a copy of the slab as the operator, and putting it on a hidden layer.

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:11:12 GMT

Hello Matthew,
Thank you for your post describing your experience with SEO.
I have had all of the problems you describe and it is
good to know that it's not just me.
Have you run into the "incredible shifting target" ?
This is the one where a target element under
certain inconsistent circumstances is displaced to the origin in 3D
but stays in it's correct position in plan. The only way to correct
the problem is to cut and paste the element back into the plan.
Graphisoft is aware of some of these problems and promises
they will be fixed in AC 10.
Thank you,
Peter Devlin

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:45:35 GMT

Peter wrote:
Hello Matthew,
Have you run into the "incredible shifting target" ?
This is the one where a target element under
certain inconsistent circumstances is displaced to the origin in 3D
but stays in it's correct position in plan. The only way to correct
the problem is to cut and paste the element back into the plan.

I haven't seen this one yet, but I'll keep my eye out for it.

Re: SEO

James Murray — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:57:56 GMT

SEOs are bumpy and require observation. They're a lot better than they used to be. I am a hopeless, pathetic addict.

Some operations fail for no apparent reason. These you can usually redo.

Any geometric inconsistency in either party can cause an SEO to fail. Meshes seem especially vulnerable to this, since they're the most complex to begin with. Roofs where the edge conditions of the main polygon and a hole cause a crossing situation. Any 3D polygon formed by splitting along an edge where you get that dangling node.

While the reliability has improved a lot, the whole interface is still very 1.0. An operations manager is needed, and the palette itself is a total do-over.

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 19:38:05 GMT

James wrote:
SEOs are bumpy and require observation. They're a lot better than they used to be. I am a hopeless, pathetic addict.

Some operations fail for no apparent reason. These you can usually redo.

Any geometric inconsistency in either party can cause an SEO to fail. Meshes seem especially vulnerable to this, since they're the most complex to begin with. Roofs where the edge conditions of the main polygon and a hole cause a crossing situation. Any 3D polygon formed by splitting along an edge where you get that dangling node.

While the reliability has improved a lot, the whole interface is still very 1.0. An operations manager is needed, and the palette itself is a total do-over.

Well put, James. I too am addicted to SEOs and so periodically run into the limits and quirks as I occasionally push the limits.

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 22:08:18 GMT

Matthew wrote:
SEOs are still a bit quirky...
I have seen AC "forget" an SEO here and there... Since most of the cut elements were in modules...

Just a quick observation and comment from my experience with SEO's...I don't believe archicad will carry over SEOs contained in a MOD file when it is hotlinked into a PLN. If anyone has had success at this please let me know how you did it.

I've had to result to the old "trusty" trim to roofs to work aound this...

Thanks,
Dan K

Re: SEO

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:20:24 GMT

Dan wrote:
Matthew wrote:
SEOs are still a bit quirky...
I have seen AC "forget" an SEO here and there... Since most of the cut elements were in modules...
Just a quick observation and comment from my experience with SEO's...I don't believe archicad will carry over SEOs contained in a MOD file when it is hotlinked into a PLN. If anyone has had success at this please let me know how you did it.

I've had to result to the old "trusty" trim to roofs to work aound this...

Thanks,
Dan K

The SEOs will convey with a MOD file if the elements are all on the same story. It might work if they are all included in a multistory module (I don't recall that one right now).

Linked modules can also be cut by elements in the main file. Groups must be active (not suspended) for this to work (just the opposite of cutting grouped elements).