topic Re: 3D board & batten in Modeling

3D board & batten

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 00:24:04 GMT

What is the best way to produce an material that can display in 3D (Internal & OpenGL) a realistic board & batten siding.

Re: 3D board & batten

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 04:05:41 GMT

I'm sure that someone will have a better method, but I just experimented in using the wall framing accessories in a zero thickness glass wall placed 1/16" in front of the main wall. I had to use a zero thickness wall, as I could not force the framing to appear outside the main wall. Be sure that your glass is set to 100% transparent and transparency is set to be on in the 3D window. You can set the size and spacing of the battens with the wall accessories.

Re: 3D board & batten

Steve Jepson — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 06:36:20 GMT

Jay wrote:
What is the best way to produce an material that can display in 3D (Internal & OpenGL) a realistic board & batten siding.

I just use a wall 1.5" wide and .75" thick and trim to roof. If looks fine in 3D.

Re: 3D board & batten

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:44:26 GMT

Steve wrote:
Jay wrote:
What is the best way to produce an material that can display in 3D (Internal & OpenGL) a realistic board & batten siding.
I just use a wall 1.5" wide and .75" thick and trim to roof. If looks fine in 3D.

Steve,
Very nice "sketch" effect! I do something similar. I use an object that repeats a vertical member at given spacing, place it next to the wall and trim it to the roofs. I think I'm going to add "cutplanes" to the object so I don't have to trim it to the roofs...sometimes I need to cut the B&B's below a sub rake trim and the bottom of the roof thickness doesn't terminate at that point.

Again, very nice sketch - tell us how you are achieving your nicely trimmed out rakes and eave overhangs.

thanks,
Dan K

Re: 3D board & batten

Stephen Dolbee — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:45:45 GMT

Steve,

How did you accomplish the fascia/eave detail?

Re: 3D board & batten

Link — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:04:42 GMT

Looks just like the Eave Designer object available from objectsonline.com

Cheers,
Link.

Re: 3D board & batten

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:33:53 GMT

What is the best way to produce an material that can display in 3D (Internal & OpenGL) a realistic board & batten siding.

Others have sugested means of modeling the board and batten. It sounds like you are looking to apply a material to the exterior wall that will render correctly in the 3d window using open GL. A method I have used is to model some board and batten in Archicad and view in the 3D window. Save the 3D view as an image file and edit in photoshop color, brightness etc. Others are much more sophisticated in this so my methods are quite primitive. You might also search for textures that have already been made. There are a lot of free ones on the web and I am sure objects online will have something to offer.

Re: 3D board & batten

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 16:35:57 GMT

if you're doing this as a material then it's worth adding an alpha layer (basically black and white vertical stripes) to a (tiff) image to be used as a bump map in the texture of the material

bill

Re: 3D board & batten

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 17:26:55 GMT

Millard thank you for the response. Your solution seems the most automated. After all this is the year 2005, lets use these computer processors to their potential. I have used the Wall accessory tool before for a shingle Wainscoting. I may give this a try.

Steve, yes nice work. Are you breaking the Battens at the windows and vents with SEO.
Your solution is more for the Finished product, seems time consuming. I would like a solution that I could use during early Design also to give a more realistic representation to the client for possible options.
If your fascia/eave detail answer is fairly extensive maybe you could start another thread and post the link here.

Dan, Is this an object that you created. Again it sounds like it is for use towards the end of Design.

Mike, Finding a Texture (for OpenGL and I guess LightWorks) would be nice, but most searches leave my head spinning. Like this Post: http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=10691&highlight=textures#10691 Too many options. Also not a PhotoShop expert or even owner.

Bill, Yes with the Internal 3D engine I believe that I will need a material (I already have a Fill pattern that works for non-random Board & Batten). Can you direct me to somewhere in the ArchiCAD manuals as to the steps to creating this image. Board & Battens Siding is a vary common application. I am surprised that it is not more standard to the AC software.

Re: 3D board & batten

Steve Jepson — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:04:35 GMT

Jay wrote:
Steve, yes nice work. Are you breaking the Battens at the windows and vents with SEO.
Your solution is more for the Finished product, seems time consuming. I would like a solution that I could use during early Design also to give a more realistic representation to the client for possible options.
If your fascia/eave detail answer is fairly extensive maybe you could start another thread and post the link here.

That was the prelim. In the rendering, I made the batts all one object. In elevation view I used the slab tool to make the batts 3/4" thick, view from the top and save as an object. The fascia, gutter, and soffit were made with the profiler tool. I just used the lines from my typical wall detail. The trim and fascia at the gable end are rafters. It takes very little time at all to model the trim. The custom windows were made by using the 2D drawing I got from the Milgard web site for that exact window. Same technique. Slab tool-Magic Wand, view from top and save as object.
Same with the louver. I think it was a Fypon 2D drawing made into 3d with a few clicks. This may sound complicated to some but it is actually very fast because there is very little drawing to do. I modeled all of the trim on this house, the louver, custom window, fascia/gutter/soffit etc... in about 20 min.
You may have spent more time than that looking for a good texture and when you find it you will spend more time tweaking it to the scale you need. You could put the batts on a different layer and trun it on and off to show different siding options. I even model my lap siding when I need it for a detailed rendering. I would post the rendering but its 182 MB and looks terrible when I resize it to be shown on this forum.

Re: 3D board & batten

Steve Jepson — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 22:15:56 GMT

Dan wrote:
...tell us how you are achieving your nicely trimmed out rakes and eave overhangs.
thanks,
Dan K

Ok Dan, but you have to tell us how you are doing the ones on your web site.

I saw a detail flash by on your website that I would use to make the fascia/gutter/soffit/frieze etc... with.
Just select the outside lines and use the profiler tool. Then save it as a .gsm. Nothing to it.
Some object can be made better by selecting the lines in an elevation view, copy off to the side, use the slab tool to give it a thickness, view from the top, save as a .gsm. You can use this technique in many ways. Import an image file, stretch to scale, trace the parts you want, use the slab tool to give it a thickness and make it an object.
I do the same thing for my trusses. I get the profiles in .dxf from the manufacture, click between the lines with the magic wand to make it 1.5" thick and save them as objects. Normally, I only make the ones where i am going to have a section, but sometimes its fun to do the whole house.

The possibilities for this technique are only limited by your imagination. I used it once to make a corn maze. The farmer faxed me a picture of his idea, I put it into ArchiCAD as a .tiff, stretched it to scale, traced the maze which was a covered wagon with horses and spoked wheels, turned it into an object. I was able to give him a very detailed and well dimensioned corn maze. Ever need ornate iron work? special hand railings? lots of custom foam trim on a stucco project? custom 3D fonts? special furniture? unique windows? corrugated sheet metal? curtains? quick 3D mechanical systems from shop drawings? 3d fire sprinkler piping? weather vein? special curved glue-lams? terrain modeling? 3D ceiling grids? coffered ceilings? tile patterns? special moldings? It is all done with the same simple technique.

There are so many free CAD files and details available from manufactures these days that you can make an ArchiCAD model part very quickly for almost anything you need. And it does not require any knowledge of GDL either. You can simply add more parts and save it again as a new object.

Re: 3D board & batten

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 22:19:04 GMT

Nice work, Steve, and good discussion.

Wouldn't TrussMaker be another alternative for quickly generating the battens?

Were it not for wall openings, a simple multiply of lines to generate the input for TM would be quite fast. A possible trick to deal with openings is to appy a material to the walls that uses a fill with the desired centerline spacing between vertical lines but with a unique pen. Shoot an elevation/section of the wall - which will have these unique-pen lines cut oh-so-perfectly around all openings/trim including casing/etc and copy/paste the elevation to the side. Use find-and-select to select all lines with that unique pen, and invoke TrussMaker and tell it the size of the batts.

More work than Jay wants for preliminary, but not that bad for doing an actual model. I do like Millard's wall framing accessory trick, too! That's thinking out of the box! 😉

Karl

Re: 3D board & batten

Steve Jepson — Tue, 04 Jan 2005 22:41:46 GMT

Oh yea Karl! I love Truss maker! and the wall framing tool..I bet both of these would be great for making board and batt siding. This will generate many hours of fun for me. You are good with words Karl, you should work out an efficient process and submit it as another prize winning tip ( when you have time of course)

Re: 3D board & batten

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:14:30 GMT

Jay wrote:
Dan, Is this an object that you created. Again it sounds like it is for use towards the end of Design.

Jay,
Yes, it is an object I wrote specifically for this type of detail - it's not super sophisticated but it gets the job done. I actually use it at the "beginning" of design and tweak the settings throughout the design process. Using an intelligent object allows you to add more detail to a project earlier in the process.

Steve wrote:
Dan wrote:
...tell us how you are achieving your nicely trimmed out rakes and eave overhangs.
thanks,
Dan K
Ok Dan, but you have to tell us how you are doing the ones on your web site.

Steve,
I have objects I've created for use on soffits/gutters, rakes/subrakes, board & battens etc. I've found this is the only efficient way to quickly produce my work.
I applaude your use of Graphical GDL techniques...its a good way to get the detail you need when existing objects aren't readily avaialble. I used to employ similar techniques extensively when I did a lot of Custom Residential work. Over the past few years I've changed my focus to more Production Residential work and have found that I need "smart" objects to make the process more efficient. When you're producing a higher volume of work in shorter and shorter time frames, you need the quickest, most adaptable & repeatable methods possible. I'm sure you're aware of the complexity of managing change when you do the work manually or graphically. If you have one parametric object for these types of details, you don't have to worry about keeping multiple libraries of multiple versions of the same types of pieces...I know I'm "preaching to the choir" here just wanted to empasize the point.

I've known about this object content gap for quite some time...I've been thinking about releasing a suite of similar objects for sale online. Those of you who know me are probably tired of hearing about it and watching me procrastinate...I keep hearing comments like "Just do it!!!" OK, OK... its a new year and I will. I've already put the finishing touches on a new web site specifically for this endeavor. I'll make an announcement with the web address in the appropriate area of this forum when its ready.

The objects would be more "builder type" content for streamilining residential work. If any body has any ideas or suggestions please feel free to contact me privately.

Thanks,
Dan K

Re: 3D board & batten

Steve Jepson — Thu, 06 Jan 2005 08:09:37 GMT

Dan wrote:
... Over the past few years I've changed my focus to more Production Residential work and have found that I need "smart" objects to make the process more efficient....

If I had "smart" objects I might use them for making models for rendering only but not for getting better sections or 2D stuff into my CD's. A smart part that is complex enough to generate a good detail is not something I have seen yet. When it comes to sections, I just model enough to show the limits of what I need to see and use a patch from my library or cannibalize some details from another project to paste into it. Attached is an example of the details I make with patches on a crude section. These are is also where I get the lines to use with the profiler tool and make parts for the model to be rendered. ( I use two models for some projects, the main one for generating the working drawings and the other I use for rendering only)

Anyway, when you can make a "smart part" with this level of perimetric detail, then I will want to use them. For me placing a patch over some areas in the section works most of the time.

In the future I want to master ArchiCAD well enough so that I can get it to automatically place a pre-made detail in the correct location of my CD's based on the "smart" part that I use in creating the model. I am almost able to do this now.
Or better yet, have it generate several pre-made details to choose from if it can tell exactly how I want to build it. Then when I choose one, have it update my model with the needed model parts. Would this be a parametric detail? Up date the model by changing the detail and/or update the detail by changing the model. Yea, thats what I want.

Parametric Details! Make me some of those and I will buy them.

Re: 3D board & batten

Rick Thompson — Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:56:24 GMT

For rake trim I have been using SmartParts trim library. It has a profile you can easily set the pitch and miters with, plus set different molding profiles. The only issue I have is Neil (hint, if you reading) adding the ability to pull take-offs on the actual length rather than the horizontal length. As it is I copy a rafter off to the side and ID it for rake/cornice material take off. I wrap the horizontal fascia and freeze with a predefined wall composite (1x8) ID'ed for gutters/crown/1x8's/paint/soffit etc. for material take off. This rendering (linked below) is so small you can't really see the detail, but I think the SmartPart object does a good job.

http://www.thompsonplans.com/plans/pages/details/1619A

Re: 3D board & batten

Steve Jepson — Thu, 06 Jan 2005 16:55:28 GMT

Nice renderings in sketch mode Rick. I liked the bear, the moon, and the lattice as shown on 097B. It is one of my favorite objects. I like the shadows it can make.

Susanka would love to work with your you house plans. I like them too. http://www.notsobig.com/

Re: 3D board & batten

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Jan 2005 08:37:33 GMT

Jay wrote:
What is the best way to produce an material that can display in 3D (Internal & OpenGL) a realistic board & batten siding.

I finally got sick of AC not modelling cladding that I created a 'window like' object that slices grooves out of the surface (horizontal or vertical or both) at various spacings. This is one application. Just make the wall the extra thickness fo rhte battens. Also has the advantage of moving with the wall and being cut by windows automatically.

'Objects Online' I am afraid - 'Sculptwall, groove'.

Re: 3D board & batten

gpowless — Sun, 09 Jan 2005 17:54:21 GMT

Susanka would love to work with your you house plans.

Nah....There's no "away" room....

Re: 3D board & batten

Karl Ottenstein — Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:10:47 GMT

HANIEL wrote:
I finally got sick of AC not modelling cladding that I created a 'window like' object that slices grooves out of the surface (horizontal or vertical or both) at various spacings. This is one application. Just make the wall the extra thickness fo rhte battens. Also has the advantage of moving with the wall and being cut by windows automatically.

I thought about that approach, too - but just using solid element subtract, since that does the same thing as your object I assume?

The problem I see is that in a residential setting, the boards dive behind the brickmould around the windows, and yet the batts abut them. Thus, for your object (I assume) or a solid element subtract of the "board negative" to work, the window trim would have to be embedded in the extra thick wall. Not possible AFAIK.

Karl