topic Linux in Modeling

Archicad for Linux

Anonymous — Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:01:59 GMT

Hi,

I think the linux market share will grow in 2005.
I usually work with OpenOffice 1.9, Mozzila, Gaim, Skype, Oracle 10g, GIMP 2.1, Blender, Dia, ArcGIS 9.0 software that run on windows and linux,
I would like to work with a version of Archicad for linux,

Now we only have Building Information Modeling (BIM) software in linux:
- ARCAD 90, from www.arcad.de - only in german i think
- BricsCad, (brings DWG to the LINUX community) beta version, from www.bricscad.com
and a old 2D Software - Microstation 95 for Linux
Does anybody know if there will be a linux version of archicad in 2005?

thanks,
Bernardino

Re: Archicad for Linux

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Jul 2004 03:59:11 GMT

Now with all the problems and bugs in Windows and IE Graphisoft should consider Linux version of Archicad. If in our office we've had choice we would be using Linux or BSD. Now we use Open Office, Firefox, Thunderbird, Gimp, Blender. We still use Windows only because of Archicad. This is not the problem of the price (we have 5 copies of Archicad) but safety of our data.

Re: Archicad for Linux

stefan — Tue, 03 Aug 2004 18:49:06 GMT

Let them first concentrate on getting the Windows & Mac version ready. That is where most users are and where they have their experience.

Re: Archicad for Linux

TomWaltz — Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:49:16 GMT

Let's remember that GS is not that big of a company. Creating yet another source base to maintain will cut their resources even more.

When you are porting software from one operating system to another, it can take many work-years to make the necessary changes.

I'd rather see the versions we have get better than support a niche market that obviously has no current user base.

Re: Archicad for Linux

Rob — Tue, 03 Aug 2004 22:53:24 GMT

Let's remember that GS is not that big of a company. Creating yet another source base to maintain will cut their resources even more

Yes, I think that Linux version would stretch them too much. although we all know advantages of Linux it is a huge effort to maintain 3 platforms. And seriously you can't ditch Windows at the moment it has become more or less standard OS at level of small end users who are not going to get rid of it so easily (for a lot of well known reasons). Personally, I do not give a ff about OS as long as I can print the drawings and photomontage images...

Re: Archicad for Linux

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:03:49 GMT

All you need to do to make AC available on linux is to make sure it doesn't use any windoze API's that aren't supported by Wine. If the programmers have a need to do otherwise they should add the API's to the Wine project. www.wine-hq.org I believe. Also, isn't OS X actually BSD w/ a pretty face? I know it's a pricey platform but it's probably stable (I've never actually used it but have heard about it since a Mac guy was in my Unix class until we drove him away with our constant ridicule :wink: ).

Re: Archicad for Linux

stefan — Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:59:30 GMT

Skeptik wrote:
All you need to do to make AC available on linux is to make sure it doesn't use any windoze API's that aren't supported by Wine. If the programmers have a need to do otherwise they should add the API's to the Wine project. www.wine-hq.org I believe. Also, isn't OS X actually BSD w/ a pretty face? I know it's a pricey platform but it's probably stable (I've never actually used it but have heard about it since a Mac guy was in my Unix class until we drove him away with our constant ridicule ).

Are you sure you are not underestimating the efforts? ArchiCAD is allready playing on two markets. It won't grow by adding another one.

One of the problems of CAD-vendors is that most architects and engineers have jumped on using CAD. At that moment, not many people are new in the market: most of them have a software allready. New licenses are only sold to graduating students (if they have some money) and people switching from other software. Most people are just upgrading.

I don't expect a huge amount of new licenses sold when they release a Linux-version. Most possible ArchiCAD-Linux users will be allready using ArchiCAD on PC or Mac so they are probably only willing to pay a small platform-switch cost and that won't cover the costs of the extra development efforts.

The idea is nice, but this is a very commercial oriented situation, so don't expect free & Open Source ArchiCAD either. Someone has to pay for the development.

Re: Archicad for Linux

Anonymous — Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:31:28 GMT

"stefan" wrote:

Are you sure you are not underestimating the efforts? ArchiCAD is allready playing on two markets. It won't grow by adding another one....

The idea is nice, but this is a very commercial oriented situation, so don't expect free & Open Source ArchiCAD either. Someone has to pay for the development.

Just to make myself clearer:

All Archicad needs to do in order to make it's software able to be run on linux is make some minor revisions to its existing code. Whether or not to provide installation support is an economic matter. I know some versions of intellicad can be run using wine, so I don't suspect it's much more difficult with Archicad. I hope that the developers are listening to this.

Re: Archicad for Linux

stefan — Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:25:10 GMT

Skeptik wrote:
Just to make myself clearer:
All Archicad needs to do in order to make it's software able to be run on linux is make some minor revisions to its existing code. Whether or not to provide installation support is an economic matter. I know some versions of intellicad can be run using wine, so I don't suspect it's much more difficult with Archicad. I hope that the developers are listening to this.

IntelliCAD running under Wine was in development for quite a long time. It seemed not to be a trivial porting job...

Re: Archicad for Linux

stefan — Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:16:15 GMT

Regarding Wine: Crossover Office seems to be doing not too bad running Windows apps in Linux.

http://www.codeweavers.com/site/products/cxoffice/

ArchiCAD is not in their database, so it was probably never tested.

MS Office Apps, Internet Explorer, Flash, Photoshop and a few others seem to be working in at least some configurations. AutoCAD apparantly not 😉

You can join as an "advocate" to promote and support the porting of certain applications.

Re: Archicad for Linux

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:57:23 GMT

I cannot estimate the linux market for ArchiCAD, nor can I estimate the amount of work required for a port. I do expect that some, and hopefully much of the Mac OSX code could be used in a linux port. Reducing the dependence on Microsoft APIs, particularly in the installer would also help running ArchiCAD under WINE.

I support the machines for a small (~40 architects) office. Currently, ArchiCAD is in use on Macs running MacOS9, and AutoCad is in use on PCs running Windows 2000.

The Mac hardware is getting too expensive to justify further purchases. In addition, our tests of OSX show it is still too unreliable to be used seriously on our existing Macs, and it is *very* different to either OS9 or Windows, making it a difficult learning curve as well.

So we will only buy PCs in the future, and will replace the Macs with PCs over 2005. We will standardise on either AutoCad or ArchiCAD, depending on which we can run successfully on linux.

ArchiCAD on Windows works well, and we would be very happy to get it working under WINE. We have already run earlier versions of AutoCAD under WINE with encouraging results, though not yet anywhere near complete success.

We are prepared to run under Windows 2000 for another year yet, but our experiences with viruses, Windows' poor multi-tasking, limited security model, etc mean we *will* migrate to linux by the end of 2005.

Cheers!
Nik

Re: Archicad for Linux

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:43:37 GMT

The Mac hardware is getting too expensive to justify further purchases.

Spoken like a true IT Manager, 40 Architects dont come cheap either

In addition, our tests of OSX show it is still too unreliable to be used seriously on our existing Macs, and it is *very* different to either OS9 or Windows, making it a difficult learning curve as well.

OSX wont run well on old hardware, but have you tried running XP on a 4yearold + machine!

So we will only buy PCs in the future, and will replace the Macs with PCs over 2005.

May you be plauged with a thousand viri

Re: Archicad for Linux

TomWaltz — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:50:15 GMT

We are prepared to run under Windows 2000 for another year yet, but our experiences with viruses, Windows' poor multi-tasking, limited security model, etc mean we *will* migrate to linux by the end of 2005.

And when is the AutoCAD for Linux coming?

Re: Archicad for Linux

stefan — Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:53:57 GMT

Nik777 wrote:
[...]Reducing the dependence on Microsoft APIs, particularly in the installer would also help running ArchiCAD under WINE.

ArchiCAD 9 installer is apparantly Java-based.

Nik777 wrote:
[...]We will standardise on either AutoCad or ArchiCAD, depending on which we can run successfully on linux.[...]we *will* migrate to linux by the end of 2005.Cheers!
Nik

Good luck then.
AutoCAD is more and more plunging into the MS platform, with more and more .NET tools.
ArchiCAD at least has cross-platform development, but no announcement of ever running on Linux.

I guess you should migrate to BricsCAD (based on IntelliCAD) running in Linux through Wine. And it will almost work like AutoCAD, with a different interface, but running the same commands and the DWG format. And it's a BIM modeller as well 😉

(But I should not say this in an ArchiCAD forum)

Re: Archicad for Linux

Aaron Bourgoin — Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:28:29 GMT

Stephan,

you are such a partisan when it comes to software. javascript:emoticon(':D')
Very Happy

Re: Archicad for Linux

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:19:46 GMT

Nik777 wrote:
The Mac hardware is getting too expensive to justify further purchases. In addition, our tests of OSX show it is still too unreliable to be used seriously on our existing Macs, and it is *very* different to either OS9 or Windows, making it a difficult learning curve as well.

I have to disagree here. I have been working with many clients using OSX for over two years and various Windows and Mac systems for many more. OSX is by far the most stable, productive, and easy to learn operating system I have seen. (Linux may be more stable, but it is still not as easy to deploy or as versatile as a mainstream desktop solution.)

OSX is much easier to learn than OS9 or Windows. I have watched new users on all these platforms over the years and OSX wins by far. I have seen dyed-in-the-wool Mac users resist and complain about the changes, but eventually they come around (haven't much choice really).

I have also seen veteran Windows users light up when they discover all the things they can easily do in OSX that they could never get to work (or didn't have time for) in Windows.

The hardware cost is a red herring. I am familiar with many of my clients' IT budgets, and the Windows shops consistently spend more on their computers. Just because you can (maybe) but a box on a desk for a couple hundred less doesn't mean that the system as a whole is cheaper. Studies have consistently shown that the TCO (total cost of ownership) is considerably less for Macs than PCs. This was true with OS9 and earlier, OSX is even better.

Re: Archicad for Linux

stefan — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:47:58 GMT

Let's not turn this into a Windows vs. Mac debate again...

Re: Archicad for Linux

stefan — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:15:31 GMT

Lennox wrote:
OSX wont run well on old hardware, but have you tried running XP on a 4yearold + machine!

My XP is running just fine at home on a P3 600 MHz from the beginning of 2000. It's not speedy, but very workable. It's not used for rendering though...

MacOSX is running (very slow) on my PC running WindowsXP at work with the help from PearPC. Not that I would run ArchiCAD on it (but I'm trying to learn cross-platform development so I might try it anyway).

Linux is installed on the same PC (in dual boot, so it can run at full Speed). I have not tried to boot ArchiCAD with WINE but I highly doubt that it'll work out-of-the-box...

Re: Archicad for Linux

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:17:03 GMT

Hi,

The best solution to maintain a platform independant version is to use cross platform libraries in the development.

I would guess that a lot of the code is already platform independant as MAC and Windows is supported.

If Graphisoft could move the presentation layer also to a cross platform base they would be independant from the OS.

One solution to this is the eminent Qt library from Trolltech. It is an industry proven solution with a lot of success stories.
- Opera www.opera.com, is a Qt based product and opera is deliverd to BSD, Unix, Linux, Mac OSX, Windows 95-XP, Solais AIX.....
- the KDE desktop environment for Linux/BSD www.kde.org
- http://www.trolltech.com/success/index.html

regards

Birger Kollstrand

Re: Archicad for Linux

stefan — Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:38:31 GMT

I can agree with this. I'm studying Qt right now, since I'm planning to move my MFC-based research-application to Linux & Mac OSX and Qt came as the best solution to me.

GS is allready developing their own user-interface elements and resource handling (well, at least for the API. Can't say if that is also true for the regular code), it might not even be necessary to do everything in such a toolkit.

But it would be a tremendous effort and I'm not sure if it'll translate well into Linux too.

I guess GS is using CodeWarrior on Mac and Visual C++ on PC (that's what you need for API-development) so they also have to port their code to the gcc-compiler and that might cause a few problems.

Well, the day there is commercial demand to have ArchiCAD running on Linux, they might do this, but I don't think this demand is there today.