topic Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection in Modeling

Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

stefan — Thu, 25 May 2023 15:58:45 GMT

When two composite entities (wall and a slab) intersect, how do you get a correct cleanup?

I can set the priorities of the individual layers, defining the core of the slab to have priority over the core of the wall. But some lines of the wall continue and the non-core part of the slab (with lower priority) still pierces through the wall's core with higher priority.

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

Erika Epstein — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:04:42 GMT

In the Help it says:

"Skin Priority: Assign a skin priority to the selected skin which will affect its 2D intersection appearance in the project. This Skin Priority is relevant only if the current Composite Structure is used as a wall"

so skin priorities don't have effect with slabs.

Good wish item.

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

Aussie John — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:08:14 GMT

yes it is a good wish item - I'll vote if you post.
Now that walls can extend over multiple storeys this is more important than previously.

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

Petros Ioannou — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:50:07 GMT

A solution is to use 2 different slabs.
One for the concrete floor (S-Floor layer-single fill slab)
and another one for the floor cover (A-Floor layer - composite skin) which can change without affecting the structure of the building.

I think it is a better way because in most cases you have a single concrete slab for the whole floor but different floor finishes in different rooms (WC, corridors,Bedrooms etc).

HTH
Petros

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

stefan — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:35:02 GMT

I know I can fix it with split floors, but that beats the point of composite slabs largely. But it comes closer to how you should build.

I want to avoid Solid Element Operations in this case, since this is so common that I fear that they start to destabilize. I still avoid SEO unless they are "special occasions" and can easily be managed. The use of SEO lacks a project-wide overview. You have to know each and every one that you've created. They can not easily be retrieved.

I saw exactly this in a Revit demonstration and then started to realize that ArchiCAD cannot solve this easily.

Splitting floors is probably the cleanest solution, within the concept of the virtual building. In fact, the few ArchiCADders I regulary meet often split constructive elements (walls and floors), but I want to avoid it, certainly with walls, where this causes so much more effort to get the windows and doors correct.

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:11:42 GMT

Hello Stefan,
I am a new user of AC. I've got same problem. I was nearly crying I solve it in this way:
I gave slab's background fill white color ( not transparent). Then i adjust its display order . (send to back,front etc..)
I hope it's the solution for you

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:31:07 GMT

The cleanest workaround (for me) is:

- Take the composite slab only to the inner face of the wall.
- Make a beam with the same height than your slab, and position it against said slab, inside wall.
- with the new composite beams, you can even have many layers of floor 'entering' the slab.
- Group your beam with the outer wall, so it won't get misplaced.
- As the beam subtracts from the wall volume, you get correct quantities.

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:38:34 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
The cleanest workaround (for me) is:

- Take the composite slab only to the inner face of the wall.
- Make a beam with the same height than your slab, and position it against said slab, inside wall.
- with the new composite beams, you can even have many layers of floor 'entering' the slab.
- Group your beam with the outer wall, so it won't get misplaced.
- As the beam subtracts from the wall volume, you get correct quantities.

Surely this will result in a line between the beam and the slab which would not look right in section?

Weve been trying to figure this floor wall junction problem out as well. I cant believe that composite walls and slabs dont work automatically! Whats the point in them otherwise. This is where I start to really lose faith in AC when even the most basic of junctions doesnt work.

We had a toturial recently where the AC specialist said you have to split the screed and the slab and that the best way to get complex junctions to work is to use fills over the top to 'tidy up the messy lines etc'. Why doesnt this program do what its supposed to? Its supposed to create a 3d model which can then produce all the sections and elevs.

But has anybody actually ever done this without resorting to cheating fills etc? If so I would be really interested to hear how.

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

stefan — Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:16:45 GMT

If Scott is reading this, he will smile and tell us that Revit does this cleanly...

I'm disappointed that I have to use tricks to solve this. I guess it's a result of the ability to break out of the "single wall on a single story" concept from before...

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

SeaGeoff — Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:39:15 GMT

The second class nature of composites (along with a lot of other things) in S/E is one of the true failings of ArchiCAD. This slab-wall situation has been the point of complaint for years. Even so, make this a poll since it's Essential. Problem is there are so many essential things out there (e.g. the renewed call for decent stairs) that I don't know how Graphisoft will ever catch up.

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

Djordje — Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:43:42 GMT

stefan wrote:
If Scott is reading this, he will smile and tell us that Revit does this cleanly...

As it does the stairs ... really frustrating and incomprehensible!

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:17:22 GMT

Geoff wrote:
The second class nature of composites (along with a lot of other things) in S/E is one of the true failings of ArchiCAD. This slab-wall situation has been the point of complaint for years.

And, let's not forget to mention the 3rd class nature of 3D in situations like this. If you want a 3D axometric with hidden line and vectorial fills involving composites and SEOps, plan on a lot of manual editing.

Karl

Re: Simple composite WALL-FLOOR intersection

stefan — Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:41:34 GMT

As I am preparing a course to introduce our students to ArchiCAD in november, such details will fire back on me, when I "omit" them in my explanation. So I have to include the usable workaround as well.

But I'm sure, ArchiCAD has enough to offer to at least make them happy again after some of these "disappointments".