topic Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings? in Modeling

How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:07:19 GMT

We are having a little difficulty drawings historical buildings like listed buildings and churches etc. Obvious these buildings contain complex mouldings, unusual arched windows, decorative moulded stone arches etc.

How can these be best done in ArchiCAD? Does anyone else do this kind of work as 3d models or is it generally better to forget the 3d bit when doing these kinds of buildings and stick to 2d only?

Thanks for any help

Nats

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

fuzzytnth3 — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:05:34 GMT

I've worked on buildings that involved complex Classical moulding and the like and came up with a quick n'dirty solution to allow the new building that was fully modelled in ArchiCAD to merge with 2d AutoCAD elevation drawings.

My technique was to import the AutoCAD survey elevations as Library objects and place these in the ArchiCAD model like theatre stage "flats" sitting in the correct location relative to the ArchiCAD model.

Obviously it's not proper 3d modelling and they won't display in a photorendering (unless you make a texture with photos of the building painted onto the "flats" )

I hope the above makes sense to you.

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Rafal SLEK — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:26:12 GMT

You'll find Cigraph add-ones very helpful - ArchiFacade and ArchiForma. Look at cigraph site: http://www.cigraph.com/
In attachment below - house where all was designed in AC 5.0 without these plugins (three times more work)

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:59:27 GMT

fuzzytnth3 wrote:
..and came up with a quick n'dirty solution to allow the new building that was fully modelled in ArchiCAD to merge with 2d AutoCAD elevation drawings..

I've used another variation to the same concept described, when I needed the historical building to show on all my elevations (as context to my building only and did not actually need to do any work on them). I modeled a simple massing for them so I can know their exact location on all my elevations and sections, and then copy and pasted provided CAD line drawings into their correct position (using a white fill under the outline to mask everything behind it that shouldn't show) my building updated correctly while the 2D lines just sit there static, which is all I needed..

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:35:11 GMT

On a recently finished restoration project on the Byron Bay Lighthouse Precinct, profiler, solid element operations, and constructing library parts were all techniques used to create the models of the historical buildings.

It was decided to create the models of the buildings as accurately as possible not only to assist with the restoration but to also provide accurate records in the event of fire or other disaster.

An image is enclosed of the tiny signal house, one of the buildings restored, with bed joints extracted using SOE, cornice made from Profiler, vents made as library parts, etc, etc. The walls are actually slabs with the details added.

It was decided to stop short of laying blocks after discussions on this forum.

HTH.

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 06:26:12 GMT

In AC10 it is much easier to do classical details. Here is a sketch render of a little folly I did for my talk at ArchiCAD University. It's not much design wise but it is nearly proper doric order (actually a bit more federalist I suppose) done entirely with AC10 as it comes from GS (no extra add-ons). The new profile function is terrific for this sort of thing.

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:55:47 GMT

The question is: What for do you need this technical documentation. So, I've made it by transformations of primitives. Couple months ago I made a factory - neo-gotic. It's pretty complicated especially staircase are complex.

roniN

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 03:29:30 GMT

In Archicad, when we do models, the best advice has been to build the virtual model like you will the real one. While there will be exceptions, and you don't need to model every brick, this approach works.

Break down what you need to model into the pieces of which they are constructed. This will define for you what you are trying to model into manageable pieces.

When you get stuck, post a photo of what you are stuck on and then we can be more specific in our help.

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:24:03 GMT

Erika wrote:
In Archicad, when we do models, the best advice has been to build the virtual model like you will the real one. While there will be exceptions, and you don't need to model every brick, this approach works.

Break down what you need to model into the pieces of which they are constructed. This will define for you what you are trying to model into manageable pieces.

I dont understand this at all. Are you saying you model the stone features etc all as library pieces etc and then insert them into the wall? Does this show correctly in section?

Is there anyone here who can explain exactly how they would construct such a brick building in the posting above for example, in simple steps, so that the walls, windows and stone surround all appear correctly in section and elevation and still form a 3d model rather than cheating by doing them as 2d items afterwards on sections etc. And how would you construct a wall with stone headers and cills to windows and a contrasting brick plinth for example. Do you build all different walls separately?

Does anyone have a source of help regarding actually how to construct 'proper' buildings generally in Archicad (as opposed to the simplistic ones that feature in all the official tutorials). The official documentation tells me how to 'use the program' but not how to build a 3d building. Its pretty lousy IMO. At the moment we are completely in the dark regarding how to actually build a complex building made up of different wall types and with stone lintols, cills etc.

The UK definitely needs a good book on how to actually use ArchiCAD. We've had Archcad for ages and have yet to construct a proper 3d model with it. I just dont know where to start. Ive tried on my own but I dont have enough free time to figure out these things for myself through exploration (I learned AutoCAD myself but that was very easy and I was much younger!).

Any help much appreciated.

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:40:55 GMT

Nats,
Our office works mainly with historic buildings in London. Attached is a finished model with some notes.

We usually build a simple body of the building first.
For detailing, some people in the office frustratingly still do 2D line drawings over top of these initial models. For small jobs where we have no visualization to do, this is is quicker, but I don't like this 2.5D approach.

Others (me included) model all the mouldings and window surrounds etc... using whatever tool best fits the purpose - roof, slab, wall, mesh, profiler and now, custom profiles, and the Solid Element Operations. I guess with the custom profiler we'll probably start building up a typical profiles library.

For creating good looking sections and elevations, we use a combination of layer control, fills covering bits that look wrong (I hate doing this) editing the GDL and sending things to the front or back of the drawing. I'll see if I can dig through the archives and find a section of the attached image to show you what it looks like.

This probably isn't the best way of doing things, but we don't seem to have any problems with it. And slowly the 2.5D people are seeing how a bit of modelling at the start can save a heap of line drawing down later on.

The UK definitely needs a good book on how to actually use ArchiCAD...

I agree, but more importantly it needs a good reseller! Where I used to live in Christchurch, New Zealand there were regular beginner's night and day courses and excellent reseller support. In London - nothing.

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:49:51 GMT

Phew thats an amazing model. Id be happy if I could do one of those window moundings!

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:05:20 GMT

nats wrote:
...Is there anyone here who can explain exactly how they would construct such a brick building in the posting above for example, in simple steps, so that the walls, windows and stone surround all appear correctly in section and elevation and still form a 3d model rather than cheating by doing them as 2d items afterwards on sections etc. And how would you construct a wall with stone headers and cills to windows and a contrasting brick plinth for example. Do you build all different walls separately?...

Nats,
In my opinion you should model everything...the 2.5D methods are, just as, or more laborious...and you don't get a buidling that works in section elevation and perspective.

My solution for this kind of work involves using ArchiCAD and Archiforma. ArchiCAD has quite a few parametric objects that work for many details, but for the trickier details I use ArchiForma. ArchiForma, by CiGraph, will allow you to do just about anything you need...its very intuitive and the parts you create remain editable unlike details modeled and saved as GDL objects.

The new V10 profile function mentioned by Matthew seems to have some promise. I'm just now migrating to V10 and will look at how I might incorporate this into my current process. I'm pretty sure, however, that this new function still will not handle all the detail required for historic modeling...you'll still need something like ArchiForma to do detailed/beveled rustication, voussoirs, misc brackets, etc.,etc.,etc.

Bottomline: My suggestion is to learn and use ArchiForma. I'll attach a couple of images showing some of the detail I do with this Add-on.

HTH,
Dan K

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:07:06 GMT

Nats,
Here's another project detailed with ArchiForma.

Dan K

Re: How to draw existing historical/listed buildings?

Rakela Raul — Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:08:25 GMT

follow Dan's procedure and u will be fine !! thx Dan again

Rakela,
It sounds more cumbersome than it really is...below is the process I used to create the window surrounds in the image I posted previously...so here goes:

1. Generate a 3d projection of the desired window and copy the line work out.

2. Paste the linework down on the floor plan and use ArchiCAD's polyline tool to trace the window outline...be sure and add extra nodes along the arc part (I usually add at least 8-12 evenly spaced nodes along the arc.)

3. Draw the desired profile using archicad's fill tool...select the polyline and the fill and use ArchiForma's "Tube-Sweep" tool to loft the profile around your polyline.

4. Place a section elevation marker at the top of your new profile (note: your profile is laying flat and you will be viewing an elevation view of the top of it.)

5. Go to the floor plan view of the window and draw a polyline or arc of the curved portion of the wall where the window is...copy the arc and paste it back into your elevation view.

6. Line the pasted arc up with the profile...select the profile and graphically stretch the notes to meet the curev of the pasted arc.

7. When you're finished editing the nodes, go back to the floorplan and rotate the profile up using ArchiForma's "Rotate" tool.

8.You're done...after you do this a few times it becomes pretty easy and quick to do...Good Luck!