topic Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable in Modeling

Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

James Murray — Tue, 23 May 2023 15:03:51 GMT

I am getting erratic results concerning the automatic update of drawings in master layouts. I wonder if I'm the only one.

In our setup, the title block is an object. The issue date is a text within this object. The object is placed in a worksheet, we have a view from that worksheet, drawings of that view are placed in several masters, which are used for many layouts. The drawing is set to Auto Update.

(I realize that's a longer chain of custody than most people use, but I have my reasons.)

If I change that date parameter in our title block object, it's not guaranteed that the object change will get transmitted to all the layouts upon publication.

If I open the master, the drawing updates and everything is OK.

If I open a layout, the master's drawing updates and everything is OK.

If I just publish without opening layouts or masters to check them, the results are erratic.

Example: I changed the date and then published a PDF. The dates on the resulting PDF sheets are not changed. I immediately published again, without making any changes anywhere in the project. Now the date is right.

This kind of thing needs to be unbreakable.

cc: GSHQ, and somewhat snarky commentary here.

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Thomas Holm — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:09:45 GMT

James wrote:
Example: I changed the date and then published a PDF. The dates on the resulting PDF sheets are not changed.

Did the drawings show as OK in the Drawing Manager after you changed the date but before the first publishing?

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:26:00 GMT

I'm experiencing it too... Not only with dates, but with linked images from the loaded library.
It's very annoying...
Paste the project preview image in each and every layout...
What's the use of the master layout if I can't update data in real time?...

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

James Murray — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:00:10 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Did the drawings show as OK in the Drawing Manager after you changed the date but before the first publishing?

Hey, good idea!

I'm testing a sample of four layouts, each hooked to one of four masters.

This time I changed the object and then published with the Drawing Manager open, watching the master drawings. As each sheet is opened and updated, the title block drawing of its master updates and then reads OK. After the date change but before the publication, three out of four drawings were 'modified' while one was 'OK'. In other words, it looks busy and it looks like it's doing what it should.

But, result: Of the four PDF sheets, two are right and two are wrong. One of the wrong ones is the guy who said he was OK to begin with.

Then I tried a bunch more boring stuff.

One thing: The drawings flip to 'To Be Checked' when you either close the window, or leave AC and come back. I was hoping that closing the window had gotten its attention for real, but that failed.

Another: I thought maybe placing lines in the window would get a different result than merely editing a placed object, but I don't think so. It seems nonchalant about all edits, creation, and deletion equally.

Finally, In my iterations I clearly observed this: I drew lines in the window. I published and no lines were there; no update. I deleted the lines and published again. Then the lines (which I just deleted) were there. Yes, it seems to have been one update behind.

It knows it's modified, it knows it needs checking, it does the check, it appears to do the update, but the update doesn't get through.

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Thomas Holm — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:03:55 GMT

James wrote:
It knows it's modified, it knows it needs checking, it does the check, it appears to do the update, but the update doesn't get through.

OK then it's a bug. That was what I was aiming at. Please report it 😉
I guess a workaround is to always force an Update All with the Drawing Manager before publishing. Not funny, but at least working - or???

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

James Murray — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:06:44 GMT

Already done.

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:13:26 GMT

James,

Your method seems smart to me. I was just about to change my template to use something similar. The update issue has to be a bug, perhaps of the "we didn't think of that possibility, so didn't test it" variety.

Thanks for the warning, before more of us encounter this.

Karl

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

James Murray — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:18:13 GMT

Having one title block is nice, and having multiple masters is nice (grids &c), and I think the only way to do both is to have the title block as a drawing rather than elements directly in the masters.

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Erika Epstein — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:07:15 GMT

James wrote:
Having one title block is nice, and having multiple masters is nice (grids &c), and I think the only way to do both is to have the title block as a drawing rather than elements directly in the masters.

James, you are always right.

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Link — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:09:21 GMT

James,

I wonder if the drawing is referenced internally or externally? And do you think it would make a difference?

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

James Murray — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:06:58 GMT

It's internal, and while I haven't tested an external drawing, it would surprise me if it worked better. I don't think it's the update itself that's failing, it must be something to do with redrawing the layouts themselves.

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:57:56 GMT

James wrote:
It's internal, and while I haven't tested an external drawing, it would surprise me if it worked better. I don't think it's the update itself that's failing, it must be something to do with redrawing the layouts themselves.

The erratic nature makes me wonder if it is an execution order issue. The correct order would be: update all drawings on Masters and then update all Masters and Drawings on Layouts. Perhaps some layouts are updating before the masters and others afterward, but the masters still update after the other layouts.

This would explain how some masters appear to be one update behind. It also indicates that the out of order execution may be consistent; ie if it is the same layouts that fail to update first and then show the first, but not the second revision. (Am I making myself clear?)

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Thomas Holm — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:11:39 GMT

Matthew wrote:
(Am I making myself clear?)

Sort of

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:16:16 GMT

Matthew wrote:
The erratic nature makes me wonder if it is an execution order issue...

Ummm... duh? Figuring out the internals of why a bug is a bug doesn't help us here, and is kind of GS's expertise, right? 😉

Karl

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Thomas Holm — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:21:16 GMT

Karl wrote:
Ummm... duh? Figuring out the internals of why a bug is a bug doesn't help us here, and is kind of GS's expertise, right? 😉

it's human nature, Karl! I'd never sit here if I didn't try to figure things out all the time, wether really useful or not - if i was considering usefulness, i'd probably fall into the greatest/worst depression ever known!

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:07:17 GMT

Karl wrote:
Matthew wrote:
The erratic nature makes me wonder if it is an execution order issue...
Ummm... duh? Figuring out the internals of why a bug is a bug doesn't help us here, and is kind of GS's expertise, right? 😉

Karl

Yeah. It does sorta seem it should occur to them. Sorry if I was stating the obvious. I am generally not one to spend too much time figuring out why computers break. My rule is use it 'till it breaks, fix it and use it 'till it breaks again. If in the process one figures out why it broke, the information may be useful for a few months (if the same problem recurs) until updates and upgrades render it meaningless.

In this case I think this may suggest a workaround. If the drawings are ordered appropriately in the drawing manager it might cause it to update the masters first - assuming publisher runs the updates in the same order.

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Thomas Holm — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:17:07 GMT

Matthew wrote:
n this case I think this may suggest a workaround. If the drawings are ordered appropriately in the drawing manager it might cause it to update the masters first - assuming publisher runs the updates in the same order.

It never occurred to me that you could re-arrange the drawings in the Drawing Manager - is it possible to do that?

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:22:52 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Matthew wrote:
n this case I think this may suggest a workaround. If the drawings are ordered appropriately in the drawing manager it might cause it to update the masters first - assuming publisher runs the updates in the same order.
It never occurred to me that you could re-arrange the drawings in the Drawing Manager - is it possible to do that?

Alphanumerically.

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

Thomas Holm — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:25:11 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Alphanumerically.

So you mean by renaming them you could get the update order you want. Interesting! But still a tedious workaround.

Re: Auto-update of master drawings is not reliable

James Murray — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:19:06 GMT

Dear Graphisoft,

Please automatically update drawings which are set to Auto-Update.

Thank you,

James M