topic Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below in Modeling

Roof Plan w/ walls below

Tom Krowka — Tue, 23 May 2023 13:29:17 GMT

Any way to have the walls below the roof show up? I was hoping this new release would allow it. I see the walls have a new setting "automatic" but the walls only go up to the ceiling and not the roof. It would be nice if the ghost level could display.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Link — Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:13:06 GMT

I think it depends how you want it to look Tom.

I haven't tested this yet, but I think if you want the walls to show up as solid lines under your roof, you could incorporate your top story and roof into one story. Then you could adjust the view's setting to raise the cut plane above the roof. You could also adjust the view's model view options to turn all walls (and roofs) to show the cut fill contours only, along with your desired window/door options.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:01:21 GMT

Link wrote:
I think it depends how you want it to look Tom.

I haven't tested this yet, but I think if you want the walls to show up as solid lines under your roof, you could incorporate your top story and roof into one story....

Link,
This look like a good potential solution...but not if you want to keep a separate story for your roof....Does version 10 offer the abilty to display walls across stories like the roof tool and objects??? I hope so.

Dan K

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Link — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:09:06 GMT

Does version 10 offer the abilty to display walls across stories like the roof tool and objects??? I hope so.

No it doesn't AFAIK.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:22:17 GMT

Link wrote:
...
No it doesn't AFAIK.

Cheers,
Link.

Link,
Thanks for the quick reply...somehow I new you would reply that fast!...kinda' a bummer about the answer though.

Thanks again,
Dan K

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Barry Kelly — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:08:51 GMT

Link wrote:
Does version 10 offer the abilty to display walls across stories like the roof tool and objects??? I hope so.
No it doesn't AFAIK.

Cheers,
Link.

I was told that it does.
Can't say for sure though as I'm still waiting for it to arrive.
Barry.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:43:50 GMT

Barry wrote:
Link wrote:
Does version 10 offer the abilty to display walls across stories like the roof tool and objects??? I hope so.
No it doesn't AFAIK.

Cheers,
Link.
I was told that it does.
Can't say for sure though as I'm still waiting for it to arrive.
Barry.

Barry,
I have "sneaking suspision" that we might be waiting for Version11 on this one.

Dan K

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Tom Krowka — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:37 GMT

Will try Link's suggestion. Too bad there is no easy way to do this. I can't understand why walls can't work like other elements and show up on levels other than their own.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

TomWaltz — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:37:24 GMT

Barry wrote:
Link wrote:
Does version 10 offer the abilty to display walls across stories like the roof tool and objects??? I hope so.
No it doesn't AFAIK.

Cheers,
Link.
I was told that it does.
Can't say for sure though as I'm still waiting for it to arrive.
Barry.

Yes and no. Walls appear on stories they pass through. There is not a blanket "show on above" or "show on below" setting.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:23:50 GMT

I generally just show an outline of the exterior walls and any other load supporting elements. Because of the limitations I do this with a line having to trace the walls. It would be very nice if this alternate display requirements of the wall would be recognized by graphisoft. Just like the notion that at times users want different display control of walls in plan and section views (low walls).

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Thomas Holm — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:27:11 GMT

Dan wrote:
Does version 10 offer the abilty to display walls across stories like the roof tool and objects???

To clarify... this is "clear as mud", I know.

AC10 DOES offer the ability to display walls across stories, but not in the exact same way as objects and roofs.

If you set the wall to "Automatic" and "Projected with overhead" it will display in stories according to its location, height and the cut plane settings of that view. I've got one wall just now that displays in three stories.

I regard this as a great step forward from earlier versions. It gives you much more flexibility in how to configure your views. However, the options available are numerous and their settings can be confusing - they are not straightforward, and the differences betwen tools add to the complexity, as well as the added options for windows and doors. During beta testing, a lot of more or less diverging opinions on how this should be done was weathered, and I don't in any way think this is the end of development.

The recommendation is to keep it simple. Use OwnStoryOnly and SymbolicCut (those setting combined make walls work like AC9 walls) as long as it does the job. Start experimenting if you need more - a split-level house might be such a case.

Keep in mind that the added flexibility also has a price. If you use the "true" cut options of windows and doors, for example, the 3D (internal engine) settings will apply in the floor plan too, and that will add to update times. It will be significant in large projects.

But used with care, it's a great upgrade of the wall options.

In total, AC10 is absolutely a great step forward. It also points out a direction for future development.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:56:09 GMT

This may work for you;

Set the walls you want to see to "Automatic" on the show on/Link to stories:
Then on Document - Floor plan cut plane, set to show 1 story above and or below.

This works to show the bearing walls below roof framing if you build it above on a roof story.

I can't get it to show dashed above or below yet, its just the outline of the original.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Link — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:42:43 GMT

Thomas Holm said:

AC10 DOES offer the ability to display walls across stories, but not in the exact same way as objects and roofs.

If you set the wall to "Automatic" and "Projected with overhead" it will display in stories according to its location, height and the cut plane settings of that view. I've got one wall just now that displays in three stories.

DHURD said:

Set the walls you want to see to "Automatic" on the show on/Link to stories:
Then on Document - Floor plan cut plane, set to show 1 story above and or below.

This is all true, so sorry for my incorrect post.

The Automatic setting is defined in the New Features Guide as:

'Automatic: ArchiCAD automatically calculates how the
multi-story element should be displayed on each Story. With this
option, a multi-story element will be displayed and editable on all
stories which it intersects, and its home story will depend on the
current vertical position of its reference line.'

I found the term multi-story element misleading, as these walls are usually wholly contained within a single story.

As demonstrated, if we set our Roof Plan's Floor Plan Cut Plane to have it's Relative Floor Plan Range show down to one story below (or down to the current story with a negative offset) then it will show the walls below. I guess the walls do become 'multi-story elements' then!

Like Geoff said here the relationship between stories and the Floor Plan Cut Plane needs to be simplified. There's just too many variables. This method will work if the wall is set to Automatic: Projected/Projected With Overhead/Outline Only/Overhead All. And it will work if the Show Projection is set to: To Floor Plan Range (but which one - the global setting or the one assigned to the view?), To Absolute Display Limit (but which one - the global setting or the one assigned to the view?), and to Entire Element. It won't work if it's set to Current Story only (even though it is only on one story!) or Cut Only. Ughh - another tough one to teach.

It would also be good if the roof Wizard parts and beams actually displayed like they were above these wall in the display order. I guess the good news is that we can show our ghosted stories more easily now!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Thomas Holm — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:16:53 GMT

Link wrote:
Like Geoff said here the relationship between stories and the Floor Plan Cut Plane needs to be simplified. There's just too many variables.

Exactly. What's needed at first is to separate the settings for the wall's Location(home story) , Where it's displayed, and How it's displayed.

Also, a clear logic and hierarchy between settings is needed. For example, I'm not sure when I'd use a window set to (true) Cut in a wall that's set to display as Symbolic - I think the wall's settings should set the limits for the window/door display options.

Further on, View settings (like floor plan cut plane) should of course override story settings, and those in turn should override global/project settings.

And all (I mean ALL!) settings that are stored with views should be accessible from the view settings dialog.

With a clear structure to the options, I'm not sure the total amount of options have to be diminished.

We're of course looking at a future where the ultimate goal is to be able to set some parameters and then just design away in 3D and let the program organize the whole structure and documentation for you - stories, floor plans, sections, facades, schedules, specs, etc etc. This is just a small step, but it's in the right direction!

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Anonymous — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:03:49 GMT

I think that, like other things such as layers, the complexity of this is largely due to the plan view window having to do so many different things.

The real simplification of this can only come (IMHO) when there are separate windows for Floor Plan, RCP, Enlarged Plan, etc..., each of which has its own settings and view options (all available as global variables to the GDL scripts of course). I too would like to see the current arrangement simplified, but there is only so far that this is possible under current circumstances.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Thomas Holm — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:28:40 GMT

Matthew wrote:
The real simplification of this can only come (IMHO) when there are separate windows for Floor Plan, RCP, Enlarged Plan, etc..., each of which has its own settings and view options (all available as global variables to the GDL scripts of course). I too would like to see the current arrangement simplified, but there is only so far that this is possible under current circumstances.

Well, i think with the current possibilities of saving views with different layer combinations and other settings your wish isn't so far away, it's just that you can't have them open simultaneously like with S/Es.

For me the important reason to be able to open several floor plans (and 3D views) at once is to able to work om several floors/stories, to have an overview and a couple of detail views opem and active at once, so can begin to draw someting in one and finish in the other, and to have different grids (also rotated UCS /user coordinate systems/ active.

Imagine being able to rotate a plan view for a project part that is at an angle to the rest, so you still can use all the present view-aligned orthogonal working methods in that part too!

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Anonymous — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 19:49:51 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Matthew wrote:
The real simplification of this can only come (IMHO) when there are separate windows for Floor Plan, RCP, Enlarged Plan, etc..., each of which has its own settings and view options (all available as global variables to the GDL scripts of course). I too would like to see the current arrangement simplified, but there is only so far that this is possible under current circumstances.
Well, i think with the current possibilities of saving views with different layer combinations and other settings your wish isn't so far away, it's just that you can't have them open simultaneously like with S/Es.

For me the important reason to be able to open several floor plans (and 3D views) at once is to able to work om several floors/stories, to have an overview and a couple of detail views opem and active at once, so can begin to draw someting in one and finish in the other, and to have different grids (also rotated UCS /user coordinate systems/ active.

Imagine being able to rotate a plan view for a project part that is at an angle to the rest, so you still can use all the present view-aligned orthogonal working methods in that part too!

Yeah! All that and so much more. I think it's probably coming in some form or other. The question will be how long it takes.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

SeaGeoff — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:58:16 GMT

Matthew wrote:
I think that, like other things such as layers, the complexity of this is largely due to the plan view window having to do so many different things.

The real simplification of this can only come (IMHO) when there are separate windows for Floor Plan, RCP, Enlarged Plan, etc...

I mostly agree. But whenever I say that the introduction of multiple plan views will challenge Stories as we know them I am treated like a heretic by the ArchiCAD faithful.

At the risk of another excommunication, here's how I see it:
• ArchiCAD should not pre-define plan types any more than it pre-defines the use of the S/E tool, which can be used for Sections, Elevations, Wall Sections, Interior Elevations, Details, etc. Do not prevent lateral thinking but do provide the tools necessary to create model based plans of all kinds.
• ArchiCAD should take the giant leap from window per viewpoint to window per view. Each window would then retain their view settings even when open simultaneously. And because each represents a distinct drafting space we will no longer need a plethora of sheet specific annotation layers.
• Views can be rotated independent of the model.
• Stories and the FPCP should be combined into a single setting that would then become a view setting. These new Stories can coincide and overlap.
• All view settings should be available as named combinations in the settings dialog and Quick Options palette, including 3D.

Despite the fact that sophisticated use of the FPCP and Automatic display settings is all but imposible in their current manifestations, mine is a vision without Home Stories. Call me a VB purist, a dreamer, a fool, but the reformation has begun. This type of workflow will be delivered, if not by Graphisoft then by another.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Link — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:04:25 GMT

Geoff Briggs said:

ArchiCAD should take the giant leap from window per viewpoint to window per view.

Amen!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Roof Plan w/ walls below

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:21:13 GMT

Geoff wrote:
I mostly agree. But whenever I say that the introduction of multiple plan views will challenge Stories as we know them I am treated like a heretic by the ArchiCAD faithful.

From what I have seen we are more than mostly in agreement. We've gone on at great length about this before, so I won't belabor it here, but...

While I do think that stories are an important aspect to be properly reflected by and maintained in the building model, I don't think it has to be done in the present overly restricted and complex fashion.

A special type of Primary Reference Planes (or levels or whatever) which would be designated as stories (with special properties) in the model can be combined with a variety of View Types (Floor Plan, RCP, Enlarged Plan, etc.) to provide all the functions we presently have along with a great many that we don't (or have to workaround to accomplish).

A thoughtful implementation of this can also (I am convinced) provide these added facilities while at the same time reducing the complexity of using the program and improving the opportunities for managers to set up and maintain standards.