https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105588#M55506 <BLOCKQUOTE>TomWaltz wrote:<BR />To be blunt.... this is such a load of crap it's unbelievable. <BR /> <BR /> I have 50 (five-oh, fifty, funfzig) stock Dual 1.8 or 2.0 GHz G5's running Archicad 11 on OS 10.4 without any problems. I also have 15 Intel machines, also stock, running without any problems. Projects range from 4000 to 300,000 SF. People run Archicad, Thunderbird, Firefox, iTunes, iCal, and sometimes even CS2 (or CS3, depending on whether they are on the G5 or the Intel) all at the same time.<BR /> <BR /> Nothing custom, nothing special, and above all, no fear mongering involved. <BR /> <BR /> I'm grateful for the slow response because it slows the spread of such bull-oney.</BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks Tom, <BR /> <BR /> Blunt? And your point being-..? Oh right, blunt means that you have no point. Or maybe you are just saying you're not too sharp?<BR /> <BR /> Raahaahaam-.. Raahaahaam. Sounds more like it's sheep sh_t being spread here. Baahaahaad Raahaahaam. I'm surprised you didn't mention that. That is usually the number one reason given when more or new RAM didn't work and the answer really should have been "I have no Clue". Funny how utilities designed to check/find it never do and new or more only fix the problem 1%± of the time. <BR /> <BR /> Unbelievable? Yes, I couldn't believe it myself at first either and-.. I still can't. Still, far more believable and credible at least than your recommendation that "more RAM" will make someone's computer faster ( which is not "bordering on", but, indeed-.. highly "improbable").<BR /> <BR /> All you are telling me is that you have 65± unorganized, underpowered, overworked machines loaded with more RAM than they know what to do with and that even without this error are set- up for plundering time anyway. I guess it's all relative. Some of us are not paid by the hour or salaried so don't have the time or desire to watch the progress ball spin waiting for a finder window to open. For some time is irrelevant. A "stock" Dual 1.8 G5 has a 64 MB graphics card and 80 GB HDD. I couldn't do anything on these machines with 10.4 other than watch the ball spin-.. IF-!-.. there are enough resources left on the graphics processing unit to display it.<BR /> <BR /> The question I still have, and assume Don does too, exactly what are the specs on your 1.8? Apple Menu &gt; About this Mac &gt; More Info &gt; Hardware (copy and paste) &gt; Graphics/Displays (copy and paste). If you are using a shared memory machine that would explain the reason you don't experience some of the other symptoms related to the graphics card. The PPC with shared memory that support Core Image and Quartz Extreme display less symptoms than a comparable intel. It is not that the problem is not there but they display different symptoms.<BR /> <BR /> Do you install over a network? Do you use ArchiCAD's 2D HW acceleration? Any AC enabled HW acceleration ? Are they grayed out to prevent selection? This is using the same GPU (graphics PROCESSING unit) that displays your trace references which are not the problem but displays symptoms of the underlying problem which is most likely an underpowered overworked graphics card.<BR /> <BR /> As for my recommendation I would assume someone who is responsible for 65± computers and has been using AC for a while, and has an idea of the changes in OS X.4+, would understand the concept and have at least one machine set up and partitioned the same way. No backwards compatibility concerns?<BR /> <BR /> Why you should partition your HDD:<BR /> <BR /> 1. Quicker data access and less wear and tear on the mechanical parts, namely the head/reader. Instead of recursively scanning 1.5" and 500 GB of HDD surface you limit it to 1/8" 50GB± Keeping your OS on a partition by itself allows for easy upgrades or a re-install of corrupted OS or an older OS if the new proves unstable. The OS partition would be almost ignored as it loads most of what it needs into the RAM. This also aids the Mac OS extended formats already efficient way of allocating blocks.<BR /> <BR /> 2. Orginization. Dedicating volumes to a particular app and or file type allows for easy back up of your important data without the need to have to pick and choose what is backed up when. i.e. My music library is only backed up when I add new music. My user info is backed up when I shut down my machine. And projects are backed up upon quitting the app. I used to use Silver keeper but have resorted to manual for the time being. Silver keeper is a free app from LACIE and if you look at some of my old post from the email forum days you will note I recommended against LACIE FW HDD's as starting with OS X.3.9 the ports started melting of the PC board. My bad. I have since discovered that this was due to this very same error in the OS and not a design flaw by LACIE.<BR /> <BR /> 3. Data security. <BR /> <BR /> a. Being that I have never been victim to malware or any such virus on the Mac this is not my concern but sometime HDD's just fail. As one who has spent a lot of time recovering data I can tell you it is quicker and easier for me and less expensive for you if I don't have to wade through piles of OS stuff trying to determine what's yours. Most services charge by the GB they have to try to access and recover.<BR /> b. Virtual Memory/scratch disks: Keeping an empty partition allows you the free space to allocate to the apps and OS helping you avoid the "insufficient memory" time to quit apps messages. One will note that on OS X.4 quitting such apps does not free up the memory though.<BR /> c. I can protect or hide any single volume on my HDD without doing so to my OS home or applications as they due take a performance hit when encryption is enabled.<BR /> d. Spotlight: Spotlight is a very powerful search engine and "hiding" volumes speeds up it's ability to find what you are looking for. Spotlight searches the <I></I><S><I><I></I></I></S><U></U><S><U><U></U></U></S>contents<E></E><I></I> of the files and not merely the folders or file names. You are simply eliminating the least likely place you'll ever find what you are looking for.<BR /> e. If there ever is a virus etc. it will most likely be like the majority and keep to the OS's volume and not go everywhere especially if your other volume name are unique.<BR /> <BR /> f. If you install more than one OS on a machine it allows for quick troubleshooting of HW and SW alike provides a safe way to upgrade apps and OS's with a quick revert if there is any problems, i.e. driver issues etc..My G4 runs almost every app and OS that I have ever owned and can boot into OS 9 through OS X.4. I am experimenting with Xgrid at the moment so that I can use the G4's idle processor on my MBP and it seems that AC is looking at this as well. I don't know if they have implemented it's use as of yet though.<BR /> g. Journaling: Journaling is a safety feature to prevent against HDD failures do to power fluctuations/failures. It is constantly reading and writing to the HD putting place markers down so that if power does fail the reader can find it's place upon reboot and not slam itself on the extremes (click, click) trying to figure out where it is supposed to be. Turning this off will help to speed things up but you are risking your HDD to a certain extent if you fail to use a backup power system that is always on.<BR /> <BR /> 4. A larger graphics card: Mac OS X.4 contains an "all new" way for the OS and the apps to use it. As I posted earlier the Mac OS uses Open GL for the entire desktop. Windows should be almost instantaneous and not produce a progress ball. That statement was copied directly from Apple and is not my opinion or what I "believe". It is what is. The OS allocates a small percentage to VM and it does not seem to be able to access anymore than what it captured at startup. So regardless of how AC or any apps has implemented it the OS/QT is still taking charge. I don't have so don't know much about AC 10 or 11 but even if they are still non multithreaded the OS still breaks the tasks into threads, as is evident by the posts showing the Activity Monitor. (Mac OS - What does this mean?) Note the virtual memory is greater than the real by almost 200% on a single processor 1.8 G5. This is why it is using 66% of the processor and WOW-!! Safari is efficiently giving up it's unneeded resources? My question is what was Safari doing in the background?<BR /> <BR /> 5. As for my "complaints" they are not, but more an observation or a thought to ponder. Did GS send old versions of SW along with their latest after stripping itself of all it's tools/functions? No. iMovie may as well be stripped because of me as Apple has been unable to get beyond the fact that my discovery of this very real issue started with iMovie. This is an OS error. The reason why AC users may be experiencing less symptoms especially with AC is that AC provides it's own time management and does not sync with (or even use Core Audio, AFAICT) at the app level. It also appears that AC writes to the lower levels of both the OS and QT bypassing the numerous time formatters and "flippers" whenever it can.<BR /> <BR /> So if the number of machines one has lends any credence I still have you beat with only 3. It used to be 4 but the HDD that contained the 10,000± floppy disks that were needed to install the SW on the Apple II has been destroyed-.. by OS 10.4.<BR /> <BR /> I can open any piece app or use any piece of HW from 7.0. And this is how I know what I know. When 10.5 comes out if I choose to upgrade will be installed on the partition containing the full OS 10.4 and if still has the same issue will be reverted back to 10.4. but will not disrupt anything I am currently working on<BR /> <BR /> Here is some more of that last Bug Report to Apple. I got no response until it was sent to the legal dept. on June 11 2007. (Information Assurance is a major requirement for some of us) I Finally got two responses. One from Apple's CH and the other on July 31 2007 in the security Updates. So if you are curious why it takes you 3600 seconds to do something that should take 36 or maybe you have wondered recently WTF time it really is when you see 1:5243 for a time stamp-.. this is why.<BR /> <BR /> <BR /> 1. Bug Header Information&nbsp;<BR /> &nbsp;<BR /> 1.1 : Product/Component:&nbsp;<BR /> <BR /> Mack OS X.4.0+, BSD (POSIX API), Core Audio, Core Video, Core Image, Quartz Composer, iDisk, .Mac QuickTime, Mail (including PLP), Safari, iTunes, iLife and PPC apps iWork 05, Appleworks. Firewire, Graphics Cards, Batteries, chargers and other hardware, Superdrive, UDF, ISO 9660(?)<BR /> <BR /> 1.2 : Classification:&nbsp;<BR /> <BR /> Security:&nbsp;<BR /> <BR /> &nbsp;Information Assurance is not attainable nor is Common Criteria as the very basic requirements of an OS cannot be met. Mac OS 10.3.9+ has an error with a time formatter that is arbitrarily changing dates and times (most often times only, though I recall date issues with 10.0 &amp;.1). The OS is altering and or destroying data and devices as it appears unable to protect against reentrant or concurrent access to resources. Function calls are not being serialized properly rendering work loops and events incapable of performing their functions and/or accessing critical resources across four architectures of hardware. (G4-IC2D). It appears that the algorithms are correct (to my limited knowledge) and these errors would not be caught by any debugging method or software intended for such use. Whenever dependencies are on time calculations applications crash, hang and/or data is lost and hardware failures occur as the time formats being used are not able to properly sync as many of the applications are using too many time formats that are not being properly transfered and are instead being transposed.Seconds are calculated as minutes, decimal seconds as seconds and so on depending on the specific application and the time formatter it uses locally and/or internally.<BR /> <BR /> Performance:<BR /> <BR /> The overall user experience has been degraded considerably as things that (according to the written code) should, and have in the past, work without a moment of thought now require a considerable amount of time to accomplish. i.e. sending an email from a .mac address to an Apple address or&nbsp; accessing or using an iDisk requires an exuberant amount of time and free hard disk space. My last attempt consumed 8GB of HD space that I could not recover until a kernel panic "released" the space. I assumed it would have consumed more but that is the scratch disk space on the startup disk that is reserved for the apps. no documents are saved to or stored to this disk. This is always free with the exception of using Safari or Mail. No other apps seem to use it at all and if they do it is minimal I don't believe any use more than 250 MB±.<BR /> <BR /> &nbsp;All audio and video apps have numerous glitches that are otherwise inexplicable (i.e. stuttering or echoing sound, dropping frames (all frames) resulting in all black or white video tracks.). Inexplicable, much like the ongoing battery/charger issues of five± years and four generations of machines that (I did not experience this on my G4 667 non DVI until I installed 10.4) one notes that the damage occurs while the PMU or SMC is "Calculating Until Full" which can go on for hours unless you unplug the cord from the computer and re-plug it or access energy saver. No changes are required just open and close.&nbsp;<BR /> <BR /> &nbsp;Firewire devices are incredibly unstable and unreliable. Most notably HDD failures and data corruption when the device cannot&nbsp; properly handle unscheduled events. I would recommend against the replacement of HDDs based upon DISK WARRIOR results as they are different each time and often have been the cause kernel panics for me and disk Utility Lists the S.M.A.R.T. Status as OK.. Kernel panics are quite frequent with FW HDDs. Most often a machine will not start up or shut down with a FW HDD connected.<I></I><S><I><I></I></I></S><BR /> <BR /> Then if you look at what they are telling you (or not telling you) you will see the products and components I have listed are pretty much all there in one form or another and most are even at a lower level than I have gotten. Now it is rounding my files of less than 1 second in duration to 10 seconds. So you decide who's more credible 65± machines running a single OS or three machines running 11 OS's (15 if you include W95, 98, MLM and XP) You can also look at the separate 10.3.9 update and all the QT updates. All deal with time, syncing and data access.<BR /> <BR /> <I></I><S><I><I></I></I></S>About Security Update 2007-007 (10.4.10 PPC)<BR /> Security Update 2007-007 is recommended for all users and improves the security of the following components:<BR /> <BR /> bzip2<BR /> CFNetwork<BR /> Core Audio<BR /> cscope<BR /> gnuzip<BR /> Kerberos<BR /> mDNSResponder<BR /> PDFKit<BR /> PHP<BR /> Quartz Composer<BR /> samba<BR /> WebKit<BR /> WebCore<BR /> <BR /> Security Update 2007-006 has been incorporated into this security update.<E></E><BR /> <BR /> Coincidence?<BR /> <BR /> You say no issues yet Apple says you had/have serious issues.<BR /> <BR /> But then again I am what Apple refers to (within the code) as an "idiot user" and being that this issue has gone all the way to the legal dept. that could very well be why Apple stripped iLife of all the code that makes reference to such "idiots" as myself. I for one knew the Y2K thing was a major pile of BS yet this is the same but different and is not the slow train rolling with plenty of time to jump off or repair the tracks ahead. I have hours of audio and video of Apple's tech support and various machines doing all types of bazaar things (or not doing anything at all) and most have a well timed rhythm. Thousands of other documents provided by numerous sources all seeing similar symptoms and none being resolved. One issue that I do have with many documents though is incorrect dates and times.<BR /> <BR /> The first HDD to fail did so in such a way that the data was not recoverable and the disk was blued indicating an electrical arc that was confined to a couple of spots on the disk again indicating it was happening at the same frequency each time.<BR /> <BR /> So the short end of the long list, partitioning your HDD and installing a larger, properly supported graphics card should show an increase in performance to those who care or can understand what I am saying. Having to provide support for various OS's (namely 9 and 10.0 back in the day) and versions of AC is what lead me to start partitioning my HDD's and when I would get to someone's office at the 11th hour my machine would be getting the required task done while we figured out what the issue was on theirs. Maybe you couldn't tell by the clip (especially with a small shared GC) but it all had to do with time. I have not needed iMovie for some time since creating this app. (which by the way puts all the functionality/effects/transitions back in iMovie 08(7)) and need the OS fixed so that when I create something at a particular duration it stays that way or the audio and video clocks at least sync properly. Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:39:58 GMT Anonymous 2007-09-08T17:39:58Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105557#M55475 <DIV class="actalk-migrated-content"><T>I suppose this is common knowledge, but according to a GS press release Power PC will no longer be supported beyond 2009 (or I believe version 12). <BR /> <BR /> While this makes sense the way hardware is moving, it does makes life a little harder for us PPC users. As it is, AC 11 runs very slowly on my dual G4 and dual G5. Disabling auto rebuild etc, helps, but for the moment I have gone back to AC 10. <BR /> <BR /> Had I know 11 would be so slow I would have waited to upgrade. <BR /> <BR /> Don Lee</T></DIV> Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:51:27 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105557#M55475 Anonymous 2007-07-18T22:51:27Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105558#M55476 Imagine how it runs on my G4 Powerbook (single processor)...<BR /> I'll be only using my PC desktop for ArchiCAD. Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:13:53 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105558#M55476 stefan 2007-07-19T07:13:53Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105559#M55477 <BLOCKQUOTE>Don wrote:<BR />I suppose this is common knowledge, but according to a GS press release Power PC will no longer be supported beyond 2009 (or I believe version 12). <BR /> <BR /> Don Lee</BLOCKQUOTE> It depends. If Graphisoft comes out with a new release every year from now on (there was one year between 10 and 11), then it will only be version 13 (Unlucky number for PPC users? <IMG src="https://community.graphisoft.com/legacyfs/online/emojis/icon_smile.gif" style="display : inline;" />) and version 12 would still support PPC, I guess. Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:42:46 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105559#M55477 Laszlo Nagy 2007-07-23T12:42:46Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105560#M55478 I think part of the problem is that GS is developing separate PPC and Intel versions. They are not using the Apple Universal Binary, that would be able to run on both PPC and Intel machines. I'm assuming this has to do with the amount of legacy code to be converted into the more modern programming system. Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:21:23 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105560#M55478 TomWaltz 2007-07-23T13:21:23Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105561#M55479 <BLOCKQUOTE>TomWaltz wrote:<BR />I think part of the problem is that GS is developing separate PPC and Intel versions. They are not using the Apple Universal Binary, that would be able to run on both PPC and Intel machines. I'm assuming this has to do with the amount of legacy code to be converted into the more modern programming system.</BLOCKQUOTE> I think that is indeed the reason: there are not two but three versions: Windows, PPC and Mactel... And with three different compilers (Visual Studio, CodeWarrior, XCode), I understand putting only effort in the newer systems. Too bad.<BR /> <BR /> If they had made the PPC version indeed a true "universal binary" (it would probably be very large) the PPC might have survived and being compiled with the free Apple XCode instead of the retired CodeWarrior compiler. That said, the Powerbooks are stuck with really old G4 processors and I noticed ArchiCAD 11 on my Powerbook is a bit over its capabilities for any real work, so it would probably have been a more theoritical issue than a practical one. Sat, 28 Jul 2007 19:12:50 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105561#M55479 stefan 2007-07-28T19:12:50Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105562#M55480 And sadly, Ac11 and LWS runs and handles much better the memory on PPC than on Intel Mac. My latest experience shows that AC11 for Intel Mac don't have even a slight difference in memory handling than on an M$ box. <BR /> So I can just say everyone that if you consider buying a new Mac i would just invest upgrading memory, fast harddrive and videocard in the old G5 systems. AC runs much better on them. I can proove it.<BR /> <BR /> so as long as it is supported for PPC just use it. Meanwhile i'm hopeing that GS will make an AC version which runs on a mac as it was running on the old PPC systems.<BR /> <BR /> have a good day folks... Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:18:43 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105562#M55480 Mishi 2007-08-16T14:18:43Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105563#M55481 <BLOCKQUOTE>Mishi wrote:<BR /> So I can just say everyone that if you consider buying a new Mac i would just invest upgrading memory, fast harddrive and videocard in the old G5 systems. AC runs much better on them. I can prooove it. </BLOCKQUOTE> Would others please comment on this while my horror subsides? Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:21:44 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105563#M55481 Dwight 2007-08-16T15:21:44Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105564#M55482 <BLOCKQUOTE>Dwight wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE>Mishi wrote:<BR /> So I can just say everyone that if you consider buying a new Mac i would just invest upgrading memory, fast harddrive and videocard in the old G5 systems. AC runs much better on them. I can prooove it. </BLOCKQUOTE> Would others please comment on this while my horror subsides?</BLOCKQUOTE> I've found the Intel machines to cut about 10% off almost every process compared to the G5's running Archicad.<BR /> <BR /> PowerPC apps like Adobe CS2 ran like crap on the Intel, but CS3 screams. Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:07:07 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105564#M55482 TomWaltz 2007-08-16T16:07:07Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105565#M55483 I have given up on relying on GS for backward support - hardware &amp; speed can be relatively easily changed but the real issue would seem file access... yes archicad 10 can open files to 4.1 but the libraries have only been updated since v6.5 WITH MISSING &amp; DUPLICATE PARTS &amp; MATERIALS FILL &amp; LINEWEIGHT ISSUES - many early details in MSA detailer (which was sold as the greatest thing since sliced bread by GS) seem orphaned without major efforts - the whole ArchiCAD library reliance seems a growing ACHILLES HEEL &amp; because of the lack of GS updates to such objects &amp; WIBU protection which FORCES the need for a legacy machine just to go back into older versions which don't run properly in emulation because of the WIBU - the only software I can't run is the most expensive applications I supported...<BR /> <BR /> I want to have respect for copyright but WHEN SOFTWARE PROTECTION SCHEMES CREATE COMPATABILTY HELL FOR THOSE WHO PAY THE FREIGHT IT WOULD SEEM WRONG and arguably in breach of a licencees reasonable expectation of fitness for use - it makes me sympathize with the hackers who beat copy protection &amp;/or vote with my wallet &amp; go elsewhere...<BR /> <BR /> LEGITIMATE PAID LICENSEES SHOULD BE ABLE TO ACCESS or RUN OLDER FILES OF THE SOFTWARE &amp;/or ACCESS PAST CLIENT &amp; 'DESIGN INVENTORY' - VERSIONS 6 &amp; 6.5 INCLUDED WITH 7 DO NOT RUN IN CLASSIC, ROSETTA OR XP EMULATION &amp; REQUIRE AN OLDER MAC OR PC - VERSIONS 4.1-5 DON'T HAVE WIBU COMPATABILITY AT ALL<BR /> <BR /> UPDATED LIBRARIES OR WIBU DRIVERS OR HACKS OR SOME WAY TO ACCESS PAST ARCHICAD VERSIONS/FILES BACK TO THE 4.1 THAT CAN BE OPENED WHEN NEEDED WOULD SEEM EVEN MORE IMPORTANT IF PPC's are being orphaned so soon...<BR /> <BR /> The support GULF would seem to be soon widening &amp; add risk undermining the merits of the added complexity of the 3D methodology that this application is dependent upon... Fri, 17 Aug 2007 05:23:51 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105565#M55483 March_ Bruce 2007-08-17T05:23:51Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105566#M55484 <BLOCKQUOTE>Mishi wrote:<BR />So I can just say everyone that if you consider buying a new Mac i would just invest upgrading memory, fast harddrive and videocard in the old G5 systems. AC runs much better on them. ...</BLOCKQUOTE>Oh.. i know this will sound like a no brainer but,.... How/where will I notice the benefit of more SDRAM vs. a faster Video card? Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:56:57 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105566#M55484 Stress Co_ 2007-08-20T18:56:57Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105567#M55485 <BLOCKQUOTE>TomWaltz wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE>Dwight wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE>Mishi wrote:<BR /> So I can just say everyone that if you consider buying a new Mac i would just invest upgrading memory, fast harddrive and videocard in the old G5 systems. AC runs much better on them. I can prooove it. </BLOCKQUOTE> Would others please comment on this while my horror subsides?</BLOCKQUOTE> I've found the Intel machines to cut about 10% off almost every process compared to the G5's running Archicad.</BLOCKQUOTE> me too.<BR /> <BR /> mishi - please do proooove it to us. i find that this ( <A href="http://www.graphisoft.com/support/IntelMac/performance/" target="_blank">http://www.graphisoft.com/support/IntelMac/performance/</A> ) is a pretty accurate performance analysis . . .<BR /> <BR /> ~/archiben Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:54:51 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105567#M55485 __archiben 2007-08-20T22:54:51Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105568#M55486 <BLOCKQUOTE>Stress wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE>Mishi wrote:<BR />So I can just say everyone that if you consider buying a new Mac i would just invest upgrading memory, fast harddrive and videocard in the old G5 systems. AC runs much better on them. ...</BLOCKQUOTE>Oh.. i know this will sound like a no brainer but,.... How/where will I notice the benefit of more SDRAM vs. a faster Video card?</BLOCKQUOTE> The faster video card would only affect the 3D window in OpenGL mode. The additional RAM would improve performance across the board. Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105568#M55486 TomWaltz 2007-08-21T13:17:47Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105569#M55487 <BLOCKQUOTE>TomWaltz wrote:<BR />The faster video card would only affect the 3D window in OpenGL mode. The additional RAM would improve performance across the board.</BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks Tom. <BR /> Just to clarify.... the additional memory will help in 3D OpenGL when converting to 3D and rebuilding? ....and the video card will improve (in 3D OpenGL) .... when I rotate and move thru the model?? Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:38:55 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105569#M55487 Stress Co_ 2007-08-21T16:38:55Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105570#M55488 <BLOCKQUOTE>Stress wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE>TomWaltz wrote:<BR />The faster video card would only affect the 3D window in OpenGL mode. The additional RAM would improve performance across the board.</BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks Tom. <BR /> Just to clarify.... the additional memory will help in 3D OpenGL when converting to 3D and rebuilding? ....and the video card will improve (in 3D OpenGL) .... when I rotate and move thru the model??</BLOCKQUOTE> Correct.<BR /> <BR /> The video card would have more effect on 3D than the RAM would, but would have no effect at all on anything else in Archicad. <BR /> The additional RAM would improve performance in 3D (but not to as much an extent as the video card), in addition to elevation/section rebuilds, schedule calculation, and layout updates, not to mention other programs running at the same time as Archicad. Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:05:01 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105570#M55488 TomWaltz 2007-08-21T17:05:01Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105571#M55489 Thanks Tom ..... I'll see what an extra 4 GB will do. Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:57:58 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105571#M55489 Stress Co_ 2007-08-21T23:57:58Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105572#M55490 <BLOCKQUOTE>TomWaltz wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE>Stress wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE>Mishi wrote:<BR />So I can just say everyone that if you consider buying a new Mac i would just invest upgrading memory, fast harddrive and videocard in the old G5 systems. AC runs much better on them. ...</BLOCKQUOTE>Oh.. i know this will sound like a no brainer but,.... How/where will I notice the benefit of more SDRAM vs. a faster Video card?</BLOCKQUOTE> The faster video card would only affect the 3D window in OpenGL mode. The additional RAM would improve performance across the board.</BLOCKQUOTE> This has long been the rule on a Mac. I wish this were still true. 10.4 and QT 7 "finalized" the integration of NextStep and has changed this (Next Computers was a medical imaging computer company created by Steve Jobs. John Lasseter created the presentations but because the medical profession didn't see any use for it Pixar was "born"). Now the Mac uses Open GL all over the place. <BR /> <BR /> <I></I><S><I><I></I></I></S>Quartz Extreme uses OpenGL for the entire Mac OS X desktop. Graphics calls now render in supported video hardware, freeing up the CPU for other tasks. <E></E> (Apple)<BR /> <BR /> Unfortunately even the majority of Apple' s tech support isn't aware of this.<BR /> <BR /> This is a major issue I am having with my machines as I am primarily using 2D software that is presented on the display in "real time" through OpenGL and only uses the processor to save or render the images to a file. This is a function of the OS/QT and not the apps. RAM would improve performance across the board for power users but would not be touched by most others as the Mac's dynamic memory when working properly is quite amazing. I used to be able to bring any machine to a screeching halt using ArchiCAD but am hard pressed to do so these days as the RAM seems to be able to keep up with my macro entries. Everyone would experience an increase in performance if they would fix a time formatting error that is in the OS and is effecting software and hardware.<BR /> <BR /> Jeffrey Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:58:34 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105572#M55490 Anonymous 2007-08-22T12:58:34Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105573#M55491 AFAIK Pixar was an Industrial Light and Magic division that Steve Jobs bought.<BR /> <BR /> <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar" target="_blank">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar</A><BR /> <BR /> The full Quartz Extreme Engine is not turned on in OS X 10.4<BR /> <BR /> <A href="http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10-4.ars/14" target="_blank">arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10-4.ars/14</A><BR /> <BR /> The old Mac graphics engine is called Quickdraw which is (I think) what AC uses and the reason for the Quicktime requirement, this set of instructions have been deprecated by Apple which means that they can stop using them at anytime. Quickdraw was substituted by Quartz 2D and Quartz 2D was substituted by Quartz 2D Extreme (not enabled by default).<BR /> <BR /> Quartz 2D is enabled in Os X and it is faster than Quickdraw and it is not dependent on Quicktime. As long as AC still uses the Quickdraw engine it will not take advantage of the speed improvements.<BR /> <BR /> Based on Ars Technica numbers, Line drawing on 10.4 per second:<BR /> <BR /> Quickdraw = 290,000<BR /> Quartz 2D = 1,500,000<BR /> Quartz 2D Extreme = 12,000,000<BR /> <BR /> In conclusion Apple is making these engines available it is for the software maker take advantage of them.<BR /> <BR /> PS, I am not a programmer so I might be completely wrong about this… Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:29:32 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105573#M55491 Eduardo Rolon 2007-08-22T13:29:32Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105574#M55492 <BLOCKQUOTE>ejrolon wrote:<BR />AFAIK Pixar was an Industrial Light and Magic division that Steve Jobs bought.<BR /> <BR /> <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar" target="_blank">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar</A><BR /> <BR /> The full Quartz Extreme Engine is not turned on in OS X 10.4<BR /> <BR /> <A href="http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10-4.ars/14" target="_blank">arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10-4.ars/14</A><BR /> <BR /> The old Mac graphics engine is called Quickdraw which is (I think) what AC uses and the reason for the Quicktime requirement, this set of instructions have been deprecated by Apple which means that they can stop using them at anytime. Quickdraw was substituted by Quartz 2D and Quartz 2D was substituted by Quartz 2D Extreme (not enabled by default).<BR /> <BR /> Quartz 2D is enabled in Os X and it is faster than Quickdraw and it is not dependent on Quicktime. As long as AC still uses the Quickdraw engine it will not take advantage of the speed improvements.<BR /> <BR /> Based on Ars Technica numbers, Line drawing on 10.4 per second:<BR /> <BR /> Quickdraw = 290,000<BR /> Quartz 2D = 1,500,000<BR /> Quartz 2D Extreme = 12,000,000<BR /> <BR /> In conclusion Apple is making these engines available it is for the software maker take advantage of them.<BR /> <BR /> PS, I am not a programmer so I might be completely wrong about this…</BLOCKQUOTE> Completely wrong no. I wasn't a developer, with the exception of GDL and AppleScripts, until OS X.4 started destroying my hardware and data and an important project I am working on since Oct 2003 has been destroyed by the OS using Apple's own apps. A Y2K thing a few years behind the times. I have since developed a motion picture program that is plagued with the same problems as many others. There are too many clocks in the frameworks and audio and video simply cannot be synced together with any remote accuracy and the durations of time dependent files are arbitrarily recalculated somewhere along the lines. <BR /> <BR /> As for Pixar, Wikipedia is somewhat accurate but brief. If you follow the current legal concerns of Pixar's former and Apple's current CEO it is all an intermingled corporate paper chase.<BR /> <BR /> As for QT it is the graphics side of the OS (not the QT player application). QT is even required by AC for Windows. Everything you see on the Mac is QuickTime. OS X 3.9 + QT 7 actually enabled Quartz Extreme. Quartz Extreme is the hardware accellerater which encompasses Qtz 2D, QuickDraw, QT Streaming Media &amp; OpenGL 3D (which is what your desktop is). <BR /> <BR /> Apple makes these engines available to take advantage of them as they are new technologies and an improvement over what was but when they say a technology will be or is "deprecated in" it means that if you continue to develop with those legacy API's your software will eventually no longer work with future OS releases and instead of updating bits and pieces of your SW you may have to start from scratch. I would be surprised if GS is still using QD for the Intel version as it would not work and this is most likely the reason GS decided to develop to the separate platforms. A very wise choice as all my universal apps are nothing but garbage and GS writes to the kernel and avoids many of the extensions that reveal this error and does not need to be synced with other technologies as CoreAudio and the like. The only apps that work properly for me are the PPC running in Rossetta and the Intel only apps. I still can't believe that no one on this forum is having challenges with Firewire and USB devices though the graphics card issues seem to appear here and there.<BR /> <BR /> Any speed or time numbers generated on the Mac OS are not something that I believe for even one second as this is a serious issue with the OS and is evident through many other forums. Moving files from one place to another changes creation dates, time-stamps are incorrect on and on-... I can wallpaper the world with crash reports and kernel panics and all point to the same thing it does not understand the date or time. Even the stripped down version of iMovie 08 time-stamps imports in the early 1900's. 1903 and 1904 seem to be the norm.<BR /> <BR /> Jeffrey Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:30:14 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105574#M55492 Anonymous 2007-08-22T18:30:14Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105575#M55493 Is there any possibility this is all because of something YOU did? If the problem was that bad, I would think it would be much more widespread. Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:42:26 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105575#M55493 TomWaltz 2007-08-22T18:42:26Z https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105576#M55494 How, goes not work and I have so many details to reuse. Thu, 23 Aug 2007 01:27:02 GMT https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/No-More-Power-PC-Support/m-p/105576#M55494 Anonymous 2007-08-23T01:27:02Z