topic Re: Dropper and Selection in Modeling

Dropper and Selection

James Murray — Thu, 25 May 2023 16:32:02 GMT

The dropper (alt/opt click) needs to favor the selected element, without exception. With a selection active at the dropper point, the dropper must ignore the active tool and the element creation order.

Selection is the only way for the user to single out an element from a coincident stack. The dropper has to respect this action.

In today's example, I have two slabs whose edges coincide. I can select the proper one, but the dropper unfailingly picks up the other one because it's older.

The cleaner and more complete the model, the more frustration from this bug.

In earlier versions this behavior was reliable; recently it has been all over the place.

Without an element selected, the priority considerations are: Active tool elements beat other tool elements, and nodes beat edges. I suppose you need creation order as a tiebreaker, but this criterion means very little to the user in most cases.

This was brought up in early 10 as I recall. Here it is again.

Re: Dropper and Selection

Barry Kelly — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:25:41 GMT

James wrote:
The dropper (alt/opt click) needs to favor the selected element, without exception. With a selection active at the dropper point, the dropper must ignore the active tool and the element creation order.

Selection is the only way for the user to single out an element from a coincident stack. The dropper has to respect this action.

In today's example, I have two slabs whose edges coincide. I can select the proper one, but the dropper unfailingly picks up the other one because it's older.

The cleaner and more complete the model, the more frustration from this bug.

In earlier versions this behavior was reliable; recently it has been all over the place.

Without an element selected, the priority considerations are: Active tool elements beat other tool elements, and nodes beat edges. I suppose you need creation order as a tiebreaker, but this criterion means very little to the user in most cases.

This was brought up in early 10 as I recall. Here it is again.

I agree it could do with favouring what is currently selected.
It kind of does so long as you don't move the mouse away after you have selected something and then move back to alt/opt click.
Select something and keep the mouse still and then alt/opt click seems to work.

I find if you are in the arrow tool, you cann TAB through to highlight what you want (no need to select) and then alt/opt click - but again don't move your mouse away before alt/opt clicking.

If you are in a tool then you must SHIFT/TAB (Windows - not sure about Macs) to highlight what you want before alt/opt clicking. And remember - don't move the mouse otherwise the selection priority resets.

It would be very hany if you could somply ALT/TAB through to what you want but in Windows at least this is the keyboard shortcut to swap applications.

Barry.

Re: Dropper and Selection

James Murray — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:29:17 GMT

Barry wrote:

I agree it could do with favouring what is currently selected.
It kind of does so long as you don't move the mouse away after you have selected something and then move back to alt/opt click.
Select something and keep the mouse still and then alt/opt click seems to work.

Not working here.

I find if you are in the arrow tool, you cann TAB through to highlight what you want (no need to select) and then alt/opt click - but again don't move your mouse away before alt/opt clicking.

Again, sadly, no.

If you are in a tool then you must SHIFT/TAB (Windows - not sure about Macs) to highlight what you want before alt/opt clicking. And remember - don't move the mouse otherwise the selection priority resets.

You'd never be in a tool to scroll through a stack. As you describe, it's extra work where a series of simple clicks with the arrow tool will reliably turn up the target eventually.

Anyway, I turned pre-selection off in 10 beta 1 and never went back. IMO it's about AC trying to look busy. It's no improvement on arrow tool+watch the Info Box. Selection itself isn't a real problem though it can be tedious. It's something of a peeve of mine that they invest in such busy-lookingness while truly fundamental interactions, such as my problem, are carelessly maintained.

Thanks for the tips,

Re: Dropper and Selection

David Maudlin — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:06:08 GMT

I agree with James. If the item is selected, then eyedroppered, then that is what you should get for the settings. What you see is what you get.

David

Re: Dropper and Selection

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:44:48 GMT

And now is a case of WYSIWTF…

ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20070726

Re: Dropper and Selection

__archiben — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:29:14 GMT

Barry wrote:
It would be very hany if you could somply ALT/TAB through to what you want but in Windows at least this is the keyboard shortcut to swap applications.

unfortunately for windows it is. but this is exactly how it works on a mac: TAB invokes the 'scroll through stack of elements' function in all selection/parameter transfer situations.

SHIFT+TAB - chooses an element in the stack to select.

ALT+TAB (or ALT+CMD+TAB) - chooses an element to use the dropper/syringe on - (parameteriz(s)e?).

of course, this does mean that you do need to have 'pre-selection highlight' turned on. but turning off the bold contours, choosing a light colour and setting the highlight timer to 100 seconds minimises the hideous busy-ness of it all.

that said, i do agree james, that the priority of the elements in the stack needs to be more dynamic and contextual.

~/archiben

Re: Dropper and Selection

James Murray — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:25:02 GMT

I have been trying pre-selection with the interval set to the max.

OK in principle by itself. But, it seems to break conventional arrow-stack-scrolling. Can't have both. You need to 'switch' to pre-selection.

So pre-selection needs to handle all the cases that regular arrow-selection does, but it can't: Try a room with a finish floor slab and a finish ceiling slab, both of which fill the room, and therefore coincide perfectly. Pre-selection will cheerfully highlight both slabs, but there's no way to tell which is which.

With the arrow tool, I click and watch the IB, and I know when I have what I want. AC just needs to respect my intent when I hit the dropper.

Re: Dropper and Selection

__archiben — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:17:28 GMT

James wrote:
With the arrow tool, I click and watch the IB, and I know when I have what I want. AC just needs to respect my intent when I hit the dropper.

you need to have the pop-up info tag active too . . . same deal: 100 seconds . . .

ben

Re: Dropper and Selection

James Murray — Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:26:06 GMT

Another victory for Arrow+Info Box: When editing a patch, the Inferior Tag says a line is on 'Layer 5'. Um, thanks?

If I could see the pen number/color all would be well.