topic Re: Composite Wall Corner issues in Modeling

Composite Wall Corner issues

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:03:56 GMT

Please see the attached image. It should be clear what my question is. How do I do it? In the image, I have manually drawn in the lines and fills. It looks terrible in 3D.

#1 - Is this possible?
#2 - How?

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

TomWaltz — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:17:21 GMT

When You Wish Upon A Star
Louis Armstrong

When you wish upon a star
Makes no difference who you are
Anything your heart desires
Will come to you

If your heart is in your dreams
No request is to extreme
When you wish upon a star
As dreamers do

It would be nice.....

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

__archiben — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:00:33 GMT

sirduncan wrote:
#1 - Is this possible?

only in yours, mine, tom's and louis armstrong's dreams.

#2 - How?

make a wish. and make it big.

call your local graphisoft reps, dealers, distributors and anybody else that you can think of. pester them day-in-day-out. they've gotta start listening one day, right???

~/archiben

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:30:33 GMT

But seriously, though:

We get over this problem by not using composite walls - or at least by using a wall made of 2 composites.

In your example, sirduncan, the inner leaf (timber frame?) with its plaster finish would be one composite, common to both walls. The outer leaf would be a different composite in each of the 2 wall types.
The disadvantage is that, at each opening, you have to create a matching 'empty' opening in one of the composites.

Having said that, I still hit junctions like the one you show, and end up exploding the elements into lines and fills until it looks right! Then you have to keep exploding the composite on the adjoining walls until you get to a place where you can't see the unwanted line at the join with the unexploded composite!

Not supposed to be like this!

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

__archiben — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:10:01 GMT

Keith wrote:
Having said that, I still hit junctions like the one you show, and end up exploding the elements into lines and fills until it looks right! Then you have to keep exploding the composite on the adjoining walls until you get to a place where you can't see the unwanted line at the join with the unexploded composite!

ugh! if you really must go this route, try the p-a-t-c-h tool (i even hate to say it's name out loud!):

- draw a marquee around the junction that's not cleaning up
- Tools>Create Patch...
- save it as an object in your library - use a sensible name that describes the the type of junction or location.
- archiCAD automatically places a 2D 'patch' in the location of the marquee over the top of the model elements.
- it has a cover fill that masks the elements below, so select it using quickSelect by cshift clicking the fill.
- File>GDL Objects>Open Object... with the object already selected, archiCAD opens that object by default
- open the 2D Symbol window and draft the representation of the junction you require.
- update as necessary if and when the model underneath changes . . .

(... and i can't really believe i've just dedicated my time to explaining the patch tool. please never use it. really.)

~/archiben

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

TomWaltz — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:20:49 GMT

Patch Tool: The tool that GS spent time on instead if making another tool work properly...

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

__archiben — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:30:05 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Patch Tool: The tool that GS spent time on instead if making another tool work properly...

mr waltz.

please ask for decaff tomorrow. and maybe take up some yoga. go find that inner peace, man! gotta be more to life to get worked up about, no?

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

TomWaltz — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:36:47 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
TomWaltz wrote:
Patch Tool: The tool that GS spent time on instead if making another tool work properly...
mr waltz.

please ask for decaff tomorrow. and maybe take up some yoga. go find that inner peace, man! gotta be more to life to get worked up about, no?

Wow, when Ben "The Terminator" Frost has a comment like that, you know I've been on a rampage.... 😄

Yes, I admit that some days the pressure of two jobs, school, and bike racing catch up with me.... but you'll note that the "two jobs" both are "working with Archicad", which is where my frustrations can most build up....

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:53:04 GMT

Well I'm glad to see others are interested in this option also. I have considered the 'patch' too, but I'm not interested in 'patches'. I'm interested in it working like I want it to. Yes, I've contcted my reseller and will continue to push it. Is it safe to assume that this is NOT an upgrade that will be available in AC 10?

Besides that, the patch doesn't do any good in 3D anyway. I need to show 3+ inches of brick on the stucco side of the corner before the stucco begins. Maybe I should just build myself a 3D object that does the job in 2D also? Anyone have one of those?

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

__archiben — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:00:16 GMT

I need to show 3+ inches of brick on the stucco side of the corner before the stucco begins. Maybe I should just build myself a 3D object that does the job in 2D also? Anyone have one of those?

have you thought about butting the stucco wall into the brick wall rather than them meeting exactly. e.g. overrun the brick wall a couple of mm/fractions of an inch . . . might do the trick and not even notice on the drawings. not great. slightly ugly. but workable?

~/archiben

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:11:28 GMT

ya know ---- on this same note - having the ability to drop the stone vaneer (or brick or siding or whatever) down to the concrete (or to wherever I want) in a section cut would be nice too. See attached.

This would look spiffy in 3D and in Sections.

I believe Revit does this. (No, I'm not considering switching) :]

I realize that we could do this with multiple composites or walls, but I can do it in 2D too - but my goal is to leave the dark ages behind and move into the world of BIM where you just model the whole thing in 3D and then output because it is all put together correctly.

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

__archiben — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:17:01 GMT

we posted at the same time. look through the thread for my last suggestion . . .

sirduncan wrote:
but my goal is to leave the dark ages behind and move into the world of BIM where you just model the whole thing in 3D and then output because it is all put together correctly.

refer: louis armstrong . . .

cheers
~/archiben

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:17:39 GMT

"have you thought about butting the stucco wall into the brick wall rather than them meeting exactly"

Yes, I have tried this. I have tried connecting them with every way I can think of. In 2D it never looks even close - in 3D its nearly as bad. The problem is that the stud framing is wood, and therefore, if you don't miter the corner completely, that wood color shows through on the corner. Not good.

What really needs to happen is to make the composite walls actual 3D composite walls. Make each composite adjustable - seperate materials, fills, etc. Then make each composite act seperately while still being connected to the whole wall composite. That way, you could extend the brick or stone vaneer past the end of the stud framing, or you could drop the brick vaneer and wall sheeting down past where the 'zero plane' is considered for the stud wall. This would also be great for interior basement walls. The concrete extends down to the footing, but the stud framing starts at the concrete floor slab. Same idea. And only about a million other points in the building construction process that this would become nearly pertinent.

I was hoping the 'Edit-Modify Wall' would do this, but alas - I was mistaken.

Of course - you don't see ME trying to program a 'composite wall programming GUI' do you? :]

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

__archiben — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:23:36 GMT

sure. i'm behind you 110%. just trying to suggest how you can try and work around the issue until it is resolved fully into the BIM process . . .

good luck fella!
~/archiben

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

Gerald Hoffman — Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:57:09 GMT

sirduncan,

You can acheive this dropping down of the veneer with CadImage Accessory add-on. This has always been a wish for me too and I don't think this should have to be an Add-on but for now it is.

Forever buying add-ons

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Jan 2006 02:35:12 GMT

Sir Duncan

Would it be worthwhile splitting the wall back from the corner, and having walls representing each skin of the composite (with end lines turned off where appropriate) wrapping around the corners only. This would do away with the window+empty opening situation, and if materials line up o.k. you should not have any extra lines on elevations etc.

Just a thought.

Cheers

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Jan 2006 05:36:46 GMT

Gerald wrote:
sirduncan,

You can acheive this dropping down of the veneer with CadImage Accessory add-on. This has always been a wish for me too and I don't think this should have to be an Add-on but for now it is.

i was just about to suggest Cadimage. Is it Wall Builder that you are referring to? I just happen to be working on a basement detail, but i didn't know you could 'slide' composite layers, as you suggest. Do you experience with it?

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

Gerald Hoffman — Fri, 20 Jan 2006 15:44:49 GMT

Lindsay,

They call it the Accessory Pack. It includes surfacing tools for walls, roofs and a footing tool.
To accomplish this with the CadImage wall surfacer you would have to define your initial wall knowing that it can't be adjusted. I don't normally use composites anyway so this is a simple wall which is the structural component. You can then define the cladding which can include an airspace and a cladding type. This part can be offset down in the General settings dialogue area ( the top of the cladding can be offset down from the top of the wall too ).
It is however limited to the airspace and cladding so multiple elements are not be possible. For most purposes other than large scale details I find this works OK.

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

Erika Epstein — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:15:44 GMT

Two other options:
1. The wall accessories free with ArchiCAD to get the brick veneer ; it can be inputted to drop down as far as you want.

2. Have the walls on different layers and layer intersection numbers

Re: Composite Wall Corner issues

Barry Kelly — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 06:45:42 GMT

Erika wrote:
Two other options:
1. The wall accessories free with ArchiCAD to get the brick veneer ; it can be inputted to drop down as far as you want.

2. Have the walls on different layers and layer intersection numbers

Another option could be a GDL object.
I haven't really thought it out fully but it should be possible to script a part that recognises the number of skins in the composite.
It could then match these skin widths, fill type, pen colour, etc. and place fills in plan that could be individually stretchy with hotspots.
The object would match these with prisms in 3D cutting away the real section of wall where the object is with a wall hole.
It could possible be made as a "wall end" subtype so it could be used with the wall end tool, otherwise it would need to be a door or window subtype.

Anybody handy with a GDL script there is a challenge for you.
I'll have a go myself but has to be in my spare time so don't hold your breath.
Does this sound feasible to any of the GDL-Gurus

Barry.