topic Re: Backwards Compatibilty in Modeling

Backwards Compatibilty

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:07:31 GMT

Has anyone considered the limitations of only being able to open projects in V11 back to V8?? That takes us back to 2003, and yet we can open Autocad projects back to 1990?? Seems to me to be something missing here?

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Link — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:27:31 GMT

What, that AutoDesk hasn't significantly changed their feature set?

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:54:31 GMT

We can open AutoCAD files from within ArchiCAD V11 back to those produced pre 1990, but not native ArchiCAD files back beyond 2003?
How many different versions of the software do you intend to have installed in 10 years time? Never mind the different library versions we will now have to collect on an annual basis? I guess most people are not bothered by this but what of the hassle of revisiting old projects say something done in 2000 V6.5. Try opening that with only V11 installed on your machine and tell me you don't have a problem.

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

TomWaltz — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:00:56 GMT

You can't open a 6.5 at all? (I've only been on since 8, so I don't even have any to test)

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:12:01 GMT

Karl wrote:
Try opening that with only V11 installed on your machine and tell me you don't have a problem.

Every so often there are changes in the program dramatic enough to make it very difficult if not impossible to maintain backward compatibility. This happened with the transition from 3 to 4 as I recall. Even library parts had to be converted to run on the new version, and AC5 would not open AC3 files.

We have just been through two such major transitions. The layout book introduced in AC8/PM3 and then the AC/PM consolidation in 10. Since these issues relate to layouts (and PlotMaker) it does seem that GS could have retained the ability to at least open the ArchiCAD building model files back to 6 or 7, but I don't know what other complexities may be involved.

In any case you won't need to keep every new version around forever. GS won't be making such dramatic changes in the program every year.

It does seem that we should all plan to keep AC/PM 9 installed on some old spare computer for the odd conversion (or take the time to bring all the old files up to date - not likely for me). As I recall AC/PM 9 will open files back to AC6.5 (PM2.?) - as did versions 8 & 8.1. For pre-6.5 files I believe AC7 will open back to AC5.0 (PM 1.6?).

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:55:11 GMT

Karl wrote:
We can open AutoCAD files from within ArchiCAD V11 back to those produced pre 1990, but not native ArchiCAD files back beyond 2003?
How many different versions of the software do you intend to have installed in 10 years time? Never mind the different library versions we will now have to collect on an annual basis? I guess most people are not bothered by this but what of the hassle of revisiting old projects say something done in 2000 V6.5. Try opening that with only V11 installed on your machine and tell me you don't have a problem.

I sympathize with this one, but like so many things, would rather see GS spend their limited resources on other matters (bug fixes and beyond).

As Link said, what has changed from AutoCAD 1990 to now? The file format is pretty simple, and GS uses open software to handle the file import process, so doesn't have to write that code themselves anyway.

Even so: have you tried opening an AutoCAD file that uses ObjectARX elements? Doesn't work...have to convert/explose in the actual AutoCAD product first. So, we're not really able to open anything that AutoDesk produces.

I agree that it is somewhat unfortunate that we have to use 'bridge' technology - keeping several old versions of AC installed in order to open or move old projects upwards. But, GS will provide these old versions to any new users, if required, and any of us who have old projects should have the old versions installed on our computer, or on CD for installation onto a new computer. So, we're really only talking about disk space and some small expenditure of time for most of us.

The kinds of people that this really hurts are people like Rick who have huge portfolios of 'stock' homes that are continually available for sale and modification. Rick has to either move all of these upwards with each version, or be able to go back and move projects up through the intervening versions. Must be painful.

Cheers,
Karl

PS As Matthew says, 9 is a good version to keep around, as it can save back to version 6.0.

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:23:36 GMT

Karl wrote:
PS As Matthew says, 9 is a good version to keep around, as it can save back to version 6.0.

...and keep at least one old computer & OS around (G4-G5 + OSX Tiger, P4-PentiumD-Xeon etc. + XP-SP2 or such) that runs AC/PM 9 properly. It runs OK on Intel Macs, but I wouldn't count on that remaining true, and I don't think it is Vista compatible.

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 19:28:21 GMT

Just out of curiosity - does the updated-to-11 protection key work on ArchiCAD versions older than v8?

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 05:54:23 GMT

I did not install AC11 yet but the documentation says you can use the dongle back to 7.0 installation.
Actually, we have kept a 6.5 "open source" version, which allows us to get our oldest projects (5). I think GS could distribute a free AC 6.5 CD, so we do not have to use the dark side way…Who's going to professionally use a 6 years old soft?

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Piotr Dobrowolski — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 06:22:26 GMT

Philippe wrote:
I did not install AC11 yet but the documentation says you can use the dongle back to 7.0 installation.
Actually, we have kept a 6.5 "open source" version, which allows us to get our oldest projects (5). I think GS could distribute a free AC 6.5 CD, so we do not have to use the dark side way…Who's going to professionally use a 6 years old soft?

If You have the 7.0 CD You could actuallly find a 6.5 working with WIBU there...so no need to be on the dark side 😉

Best Regards,
Piotr

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 06:33:43 GMT

Piotr wrote:
Philippe wrote:
I did not install AC11 yet but the documentation says you can use the dongle back to 7.0 installation.
Actually, we have kept a 6.5 "open source" version, which allows us to get our oldest projects (5). I think GS could distribute a free AC 6.5 CD, so we do not have to use the dark side way…Who's going to professionally use a 6 years old soft?
If You have the 7.0 CD You could actuallly find a 6.5 working with WIBU there...so no need to be on the dark side 😉

Best Regards,
Piotr

I am not sure what you are talking about but we do not have our old keys anymore. When the reseller gave us the new key (I do not remember which version), we had to give back the old one.

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Piotr Dobrowolski — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 09:51:43 GMT

Philippe wrote:
I am not sure what you are talking about but we do not have our old keys anymore. When the reseller gave us the new key (I do not remember which version), we had to give back the old one.

If I remember correctly - there was a special compatibility folder on 7.0 CD where there were updates to the original 6.5 with the WIBU keys compatibility - If You are on the PC I will check up the CD later at home as I have the old boxes there 😉

Best Regards,
Piotr

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 10:05:08 GMT

Piotr wrote:
Philippe wrote:
I am not sure what you are talking about but we do not have our old keys anymore. When the reseller gave us the new key (I do not remember which version), we had to give back the old one.
If I remember correctly - there was a special compatibility folder on 7.0 CD where there were updates to the original 6.5 with the WIBU keys compatibility - If You are on the PC I will check up the CD later at home as I have the old boxes there 😉

Best Regards,
Piotr

Well might be useful for some others. In our office, we'll keep on using 9 and 6.5 only; it makes the full bridge for all our files.

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 12:56:35 GMT

This is areally frustrating problem! I have a lot of projects dating back to AC5! My diploma work included! And I really keep an AC9 version on my computer JUST to be able to open old projects!

Many of these projects are very important to me, I often go back to use them as am example for my current work. For instance - how often do you design an indoor swimming-pool facility? I have once! And if I have to do it again, I want to have a look at this project!

By the way, for AutoCAD there are applications which transform its files to ANY version backward and forward!

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

TomWaltz — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:07:55 GMT

At some point, it's cheaper to hire someone at minimum wage to update them all then to keep the old versions around (presumably on old machines they can even run on)

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:29:50 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
At some point, it's cheaper to hire someone at minimum wage to update them all then to keep the old versions around (presumably on old machines they can even run on)

Yeah, this is an idea for a future business! 😉
I can imagine the slogan on the web-site:
Send us your old projects and get them back as new!

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Eduardo Rolon — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:26:18 GMT

Another option is to keep an old version of Windows as a Virtual Machine with the old version of AC on it and run it using VMware, this is how I have my old DOS games running.

For I have Win2k as a VM running in Parallels in one of my Macs for running Autocad 2006 when I need it, in theory I could install AC07 to keep up to date.

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Petros Ioannou — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 15:16:40 GMT

Maybe instead of keeping backup disks one should keep a shelf with old laptops with different Windoze+Archicad versions on each.

Petros

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

Piotr Dobrowolski — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 19:17:46 GMT

Philippe wrote:
Well might be useful for some others. In our office, we'll keep on using 9 and 6.5 only; it makes the full bridge for all our files.

OK I just checked the regular 7.0 and the famous "Silver Bullet" - and on both there is a "Support" directory with 3 subfolders "AC60", "AC65", "AC70" the first two contain the filest that should be used for replacing the original files inside the folders where 6.0 or 6.5 were installed - the last "AC70" contain the copyt060.apx - and it is self explanatory...

So it seems the oldest version that can be run on WIBU key is the 6.0

Best Regards,
Piotr

Re: Backwards Compatibilty

stefan — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:47:08 GMT

Install an old Windows NT or 2000 with ArchiCAD 6.5 or 7.0 in Virtual PC. I think that a Virtual PC should be able to recognize the dongle on the host hardware.

It might be worth to use a non-legal old copy, to avoid dongle incompatibilties... but that's clearly beyond being supported!

The advantage of old copies in Virtual PC (which is currently free, by the way) is that you can keep them running in an old environment (old Office, old OS, old drivers etc...) and can reset them are discard the undo-disk, so you can always get into an "clean" basic installation.