topic Re: whats the deal with the new version? in Modeling

whats the deal with the new version?

Anonymous — Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:47:12 GMT

This is just a general comment on the new version.

I just do not get Graphisoft. It seems they release a new version every 9 months or as soon as I get used to the last one. Instead of releasing a new version with new features (with bugs) and the older features from the last version now fixed, wouldn't it be better to release a new version with features that work properly?

Also the new interface is too complicated. Too many menus and such. Many of the menu commands have been moved to different places and there are too many "options/preferences" commands in the menus. Objects now have too many drop down command boxes as well. Everything seems poorly laid out and organized as well. This eats into my time when I am working, because I have to find commands AGAIN when I knew where they were before. But now because some of them are in different places, it is much more of a pain and time consuming.

I would have sent this direct to Graphisoft product development instead of bothering the people on this message board, but I couldn't find a feedback form (either there is not one or there website is a mess like their program)

Thanks.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

TomWaltz — Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:00:41 GMT

This is the only one I know of:
http://tr.graphisoftus.com/ask_us.asp

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

__archiben — Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:49:44 GMT

nsiter wrote:
This is just a general comment on the new version.

well said! i hope that graphisoft are out there listening to their users before i becomes to late . . .

~/archiben

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

Rod Jurich — Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:17:22 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
nsiter wrote:
This is just a general comment on the new version.
well said! i hope that graphisoft are out there listening to their users before it becomes too late . . .

~/archiben

You have my support also, maybe we could start a class action. Our local reseller is afraid to pick the phone up when I call. But I'm also afraid that we will not see anything positive from GS. If the WE was not available, 10 would have been resigned to the round file. As you may guess this may have been my last investment in GS.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

__archiben — Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:55:27 GMT

Rod wrote:
... maybe we could start a class action.

oooh! did you not read the license agreement?!

Archicad wrote:
Although Graphisoft has tested the Software, the Software is sold "AS IS," without any warranty; expressed or implied, as to its conformity to or fitness for any particular purpose, or that the Software will perform uninterrupted and without errors. ....

and my favourite part . . .

Archicad wrote:
In no event shall Graphisoft be liable for any loss or damages whatsoever, including but not limited to loss of data, damages for lost income, business interruption, loss of business information, or other special, incidental, consequential, exemplary, multiple, or indirect damages or other pecuniary loss, arising from the use or misuse of the Software, or otherwise under this Agreement, even if Graphisoft or its employees, resellers, or agents have been advised or should have known of the possibility of such damages.

"who me?"

oh yeah - just in case you were wondering why Graphisoft Australia never seem to respond to technical queries . . . they don't actually have to:

Archicad wrote:
This Agreement DOES NOT give you the right to any technical support for, or upgrades to, the Software which Graphisoft may offer from time to time. Graphisoft may, at its option and as part of its sales policy, make such technical support and upgrades available to registered users of the Software under terms to be determined from time to time by Graphisoft or its distributors.

good stuff, eh?
~/archiben

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

TomWaltz — Tue, 17 Oct 2006 00:52:40 GMT

Ben's got a point. By using the software, you agreed the only warranty GS owes you is on the CD the software came on.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

__archiben — Tue, 17 Oct 2006 00:57:33 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Ben's got a point. By using the software, you agreed the only warranty GS owes you is on the CD the software came on.

that's a relief! i may get a scratch on my disk image!

to be fair though, this kind of limited warranty is not just a graphisoft thing: all major software vendors (and other service providers) state pretty much the same thing. a result of litigious cultures being allowed to grow with little regulation over the years . . .

~/archiben

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

TomWaltz — Tue, 17 Oct 2006 01:01:02 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
TomWaltz wrote:
Ben's got a point. By using the software, you agreed the only warranty GS owes you is on the CD the software came on.
that's a relief! i may get a scratch on my disk image!

to be fair though, this kind of limited warranty is not just a graphisoft thing: all major software vendors (and other service providers) state pretty much the same thing. a result of litigious cultures being allowed to grow with little regulation over the years . . .

~/archiben

Read the Microsoft Visual Studio EULA some time.... basically you are not allowed to develop a product that competes with anything they make!

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:05:32 GMT

nsiter wrote:
This is just a general comment on the new version.

Sing it loud, brother!

I really, really wish I had not migrated my current project into 10. I'm busting my butt to get these drawings done so I can get this thing out to the contractor so I can get my house fixed so I can move back in, with my life coming down around my ears, and for the life of me, I simply cannot figure out how to get the damned layouts done. They're breathing down my neck as well, and I'm sure they must think I'm an idiot because I can't figure out how to set up my drawings to print.

There are a few features I really like, and I know I'd like the new rendering capabilities if I can ever get that far, but I've spent so much time messing with just trying to find the most basic commands I need that it's just not worth it. I think I may revert to 9.

As to EULAs, I don't even read them any more, because they are all similarly insane. If you need a particular program, you need that program, and you are pretty much compelled to agree to whatever they want you to. And who can remember the details of what any of them actually say, even if you do read them?

Wendy

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

KeesW — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 12:31:44 GMT

Come on, guys, give the new interface a go! They can't keep everything the same to please those who got used to version 4.5! I initially felt the same as you and used the version 9 interface. In the last few weeks, since attending an upgrade training course, I've started to use the new interface and I think that I'm starting to like it. Still can't find a few thing though but that wiill change.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

TomWaltz — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:03:03 GMT

Personally, I saw a HUGE improvement in both productivity and user ability to learn in Archicad 10.

Of course, I cheated.

I re-made almost the entire workspace. I took the best of what GS had to offer with their default AC10 and combined it with what worked well in AC9.

I thought it was a shame GS tried to redesign the entire workspace in one shot because the upgrade was mostly good otherwise.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:17:38 GMT

Tom Waltz wrote:
I re-made almost the entire workspace. I took the best of what GS had to offer with their default AC10 and combined it with what worked well in AC9.

Sory for maybe asking a stupid question. Could personal preferences be exported? If yes could you post it?. Im afraid to jump to 10 because of these horror stories. If I can preserve the workspsace Im used to in 9 in 10, I might make the jump.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

TomWaltz — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:42:00 GMT

You could, but it's not a good idea. The Archicad 9 workspace would have absolutely none of the new commands in Archicad 10. You would manually have to hunt them down and add them.

I took the long and painful route, modifying an AC10 Workspace that i found tolerable into what I wanted. I say "long and painful", but it was probably only an afternoon....

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

Laura Yanoviak — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:55:49 GMT

KeesW wrote:
Come on, guys, give the new interface a go! They can't keep everything the same to please those who got used to version 4.5! I initially felt the same as you and used the version 9 interface. In the last few weeks, since attending an upgrade training course, I've started to use the new interface and I think that I'm starting to like it. Still can't find a few thing though but that wiill change.

I agree. Migration has been a bit dicey, and I've definitely lost sleep over it, but overall I believe it has been worth it. AC10 is a significant upgrade, and I can only assume that the more powerful the new features, the greater likelihood for bugs (not that I'm happy about it, still holding my breath waiting for the next hotfix). We've got more control than ever, so of course the interface has gotten a bit more complex -- such is the price of progress...

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

Rod Jurich — Sat, 21 Oct 2006 04:18:09 GMT

Wendy wrote:
What's "WE"

Wendy

Ckeck your PM.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

Anonymous — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 02:24:50 GMT

I can't afford to upgrade to 10... not the cost of the program... it's just i'm too flat out and busy for anything to go wrong now...

Last thing i need is to learn the Program Again weather it's a large or small learning curve... why couldn't they keep it the same and just add new features and bug fixes. They should just have attempted to fix plotmaker so that i matched commands with archicad.

i will upgrade later when the program has been bug fixed etc and i have time to learn it.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

stefan — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:24:38 GMT

Well, I'm pretty satisfied with the new interface. It's been cleaned up tremendously since release 8.x

It has finally become consistent and GS took the painful route of revising the whole interface, instead of glueing on some additional tools in a non-adapted GUI.

It takes a while, but when you do this 24/7 (I'm not) I assume you should be productive in less then a week. Seriously.

There were times I was working in VectorWorks throughout the day, on a Mac, and with ArchiCAD at home, on a PC. Switching GUI's and shortcuts all the time and it all went smooth.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

Anonymous — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:18:23 GMT

i agree stefan, but its annoying changing it again and again. Just when you are used to where smthg is, they change it.

v10 is a must upgrade (although i have complained for a myriad of missing stuff and i still insist on everything i said.)

I hope we will see a giant step soon.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:02:13 GMT

Q: Consider a network.

What is the speed of regenerating a layout book in 10 when the layour is on a served compared to publishing pmks from a plc in 9.

I mean the time it takes to sent and receive changes from a plc pluss the time of updating the ppl in the server. Consider a 50 drawing project a 2 story comercial building 30.000 sq ft 100 MB plp. In 9 this takes 5 minutes with a 2GHZ dual G5.

Re: whats the deal with the new version?

Anonymous — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:55:42 GMT

after some time and effort.. now almost 7 wks since i posted my initial comment. i must say that the menus are still a pain. I am trying to find a door that meets to my senior designers specs (ie looks the same as his sketch). well since this firm is a "subscriber" we have every library back to 5 or so.. each one is just a hair different.. i play with the parameters but nothing matches. every one i try has at least one parameter missing that I need. the main problem is that it is still this stupid interface. for example: sometimes two places where materials are found in addition to the 3D drop down, what is up with that? and the separate box for plan and section, in ADDITION to the 2d presentation box in parameters. and because every library is a hair different, therefore the parameters and drop down menus can be different also. GOSH. i just love how ADOBE does a great job on their updates, not messing with the classic feel of the program only adding new features.

however. i liked that feature in library 8 where you had a picture of the door, handle, etc but that now seems to have disappeared in favor of the old method of a drop down with styles 1-8 (and is some cases up to 20 or more). little things like that hamper productivity as well as nativegating through the new improved interface.

the main problem is things are so scattered around it takes afew extra moments to locate. or at least in my version i have set up, the new library has something like 5 folders to click through to get to the objects. this may or may not be something that is avoidable but i have tons of stuff to do and spending an afternoon to configure my interface like that guy below is not something i want to do. i have work and a family and at the end of the day i am at home not a the office trying to fix things GS should have taken care of before shipping. here is a bit of interesting info-i believe the technical drawers here at my firm are still using 9, even though we had the "big update course" a few months ago and they know ALOT more about archicad than I do.

and some of you may have adapted easier than me, it certainly isnt because of lack of whatever you might think.. i am able to use all sorts of programs like AUTOCAD from R14 to now, 3Dviz, maya, as well as modular audio programs like MAXmsp, LogicAUDIO, Reaktor, and pureDATA. some of which the learning curve is VERY high. so in my opinion , this is more a matter of gs releasing new versions quicker to get more money, before the version is fully 100% ready for the public. it is like they have a bunch of sucker beta testers shelling out big money (as I am not the one who pays the bills here, I dont have much of an idea as to the cost of archicad only that it used to be in the ball park of a few thousand euros and mulitply that by how many licenses) for an inferior product and something people used to get for free (as beta testers). GIVE a BIG hurrah for capitalism!