topic Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings in Modeling

Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Feb 2005 21:04:30 GMT

I am working on a timber frame in AC9 and am having some trouble with generating shop drawings/cut sheets, for the valleys and jacks, for my shop to cut the frame. Modelling the frame is not the problem it is taking the model and using that information into cut sheets. I do have trouble with editing the valleys. I do not see a way to stretch the downhill end of the valley and then make the shape I want.

I am fully aware of FrameWright and have toyed with it. It seems to be a great Add-on, just not something I want/can tackle right now. I would like to be able to do what I am looking to do in AC9, alone.

I am looking for someone with some ideas or experience with this. This would include possibly hiring someone to help me, whether with drawings or consultation.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:34:10 GMT

The world's best users are on this site.
People who will post a reply to the smallest ArchiCAD question.
And there is no reply to this question?

I am surprised.
I am even offering to pay someone for their help.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 15:35:47 GMT

And there is no reply to this question?

I personally am not sure what you are asking and I would guess the lack of response is due to the same. Be very clear and concise on what you can't do and you might have better luck. Use a single example and include images to help clarify your problem.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Rakela Raul — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 15:55:06 GMT

http://www.mii.com/canada/

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 16:14:55 GMT

My original post seemed quite clear.

To cut a timber frame one needs absolutely accurate drawings, shop drawings. These shop drawings are 2d drawings. Drawings that I hand to very good carpenters who know nothing about ArchiCAD. To take a 3d model of a timber frame that has valleys and jacks, to name the difficult parts only, and everything is in a housing, meaning it extends into the Operator, to use an AC term, and convert that into line drawings is quite difficult.

I have not employed Solid Operations until the past several days and that is certainly, as many of you know, the trick. But it has got to be easier than what I have learned from the very poor description in the manual and then several days of experimentation. I have found that when their are more than one solid operations that touch, they conflict. But when you are looking at taking a timber with a shaped end that then goes into a housing... well, it's difficult.

I simply am asking if there is anyone who has experience in modeling a timber frame and then generating shop drawings from the model. I am willing to pay someone for their time. If someone has done this task, I am pretty sure they know exactly what I am talking about, even from my first post.

Once again, Framewright is available to do just what I am talking about. I am sure Framewright is a great add-on and I hope to emply it in the future. I do not have time to learn it. I have already paid dearly for AC. Quite frankly, AC should have the capacity, built-in out of the box, to do what Framewright does. AC should take a very serious look at, not only Framewright, but SketchUp. Not only for functionality, but for training.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 16:32:22 GMT

My original post seemed quite clear.

It may seem clear to you, but it was not to me and I used to do a fair bit of work with log frames and produced shop drawings for custom homes throughout the west. Many readers of this forum may be quite proficient at using archicad, but very few are involved with timber frame construction. Realize that I only suggested why you got very little response to your initial post. Show what you have in your model (3d view) and an image of the finished shop drawing for a given element. Some techniques that are useful for this is looking at 3d views (using the internal engine), using the 2d marque, and copying 2d lines out of the 3d window.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:07:56 GMT

Thanks, Mike. Not clear to me either.

Frankly, Baukunst, I would imagine you would pay more than the $300 cost of Framewright to come up with another solution. If FW does what you need, just buy it! If you cannot afford it, then you probably cannot afford to hire someone to help you... ($300 doesn't go very far for the questions you're asking.)

Some free help might be forthcoming here by recognizing what Mike is saying ... and realizing that you aren't talking with timber framers. If you post enough images for us to see what you need to model and what the shop drawing need to look like, then maybe we can help. To generate dimensioned shop drawings (rotate timbers into plan view) requires that the GDL objects be more sophisticated than those that AC has in its library ... so I really think you'll find yourself right back at Framewright...

The editable hotspots/etc in FW would save you all the time you're spending stretching and doing solid element operations...

Karl

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Steve Jepson — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:54:52 GMT

baukunst wrote:
I simply am asking if there is anyone who has experience in modeling a timber frame and then generating shop drawings from the model.

How would your plans need to be different from shop drawings for typical stick framing? Any special joints would be referenced and shown in details right? Are there some specific questions you have about the process? Is it a question about how to tweak a specific object to look a certain way in 2D? Labeling? Special information you want to include in an interactive list(angle of the sidecuts, radius of curves, etc...)? You mentioned that you are having trouble adjusting valley jacks or something. What do you need to know? What would you like to do? What ever it is, ArchiCAD CAN do it.

With ArchiCAD you can even include a picture of the end treatments of your framing members next to the item in your material list. It could be a detail, hanger information, what ever you want. Anything is possible with ArchiCAD. I know it will do what every you want it to do.

To give us a quicky screen shot, you can click PrntScrn on you keyboard then Paste into almost any program. Even ArchiCAD.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 20:28:56 GMT

Thank you everyone for the replies.

I fully understand not everyone here is a timber framer. I was wanting to find out if there is someone out there that is a timber framer using AC. Or someone who is interested in helping me.

Framewright Pro version is actually $3,000.00. That almost doubles the cost of AC.

It is quite similar to stick framing details. Except, it is all visible, no gaps. Everything is in a housing. It is not face nailed to the adjoining member.

Steve or Karl, are available to have me send you my pln and talk on the phone about how to do this? I am more than glad to pay anyone for their time. This is what my original post intended, is there anyone who has experience in timber framing in AC? And would that person want to be hired to consult or help with the drawings.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Rakela Raul — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 20:44:28 GMT

Framewright Pro version is actually $3,000.00. That almost doubles the cost of AC

can the framewright pro developers provide this gentleman with a fully working copy of the software for a limited time??
im sure if he gets the job done he is a future positive buyer

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:21:40 GMT

I have the full demo and have had many emails back and forth with both Ralph and an associate of his, Tim.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Steve Jepson — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:35:50 GMT

I don't think FrameWorks is the answer. From what I could tell by reading their website, there is only one thing it can do that you can't already do with ArchiCAD. That is to lay out all of the parts flat. It also has a few library parts you don't get whith ArchiCAD.

Special training is also not what is required. Baukunst just has a few simple problems that are keeping him from taking full advantage of the ArhciCAD features he needs.

This forum is the perfect place for that. All he help you will ever need it right here, and its free!

If you do a little searching you can find a post about almost anything. As an example, in the last week or so Laszlo took the time to spoon fed me EVERYTHNG I needed to know about how to edit the GDL script of the RoofMaker library parts to show the actual lenght on the slope! Now thousands of users can see how to do it too.

The most valuable way to help Baukunst is to let hIm know about how to use this forum effectivly and to his advantage.

ASK A CLEAR AND SPECIFIC QUESTION AND YOU WILL GET A CLEAR AND SPECIFIC ANSWER.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Steve Jepson — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:09:58 GMT

Rakela wrote:
http://www.mii.com/canada/

Those are all add-ons (so to speak) for MiTek 20/20 arnt they? You can't buy MiTek sofware unless you are a truss manufacture. I wish I was.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:34:21 GMT

Thank you Steve.

Any time you have available I would love to talk to you. I would love to send you the model if you were at all interested. My crew and I have actually figured out, by mocking up with actual timbers, the end cut of the jack rafters and the associated housings.

It is very difficult for me to take direction/learn on a web forum. I need to talk in person. Spoon-fed, as you say.

I have done several simple searches for this subject in this forum over the past year and I, personally, found only one. And all it said was... Framewright. I am not good at these sites and did not find anything, hence my original post a month ago.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Steve Jepson — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:41:55 GMT

A month ago! Thats no good.

I would love to try to help you out with this. You can help me out whith some stuff I want to know sometime. If I can't help you out, I bet I can steer you in the right direction. Lets get started man! It will be fun.

jepsondesign@comcast.net

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Rakela Raul — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 23:16:44 GMT

for MiTek 20/20 arnt they? You can't buy MiTek sofware unless you are a truss manufacture

as i understand, they are some anybody can buy, but the one i want..i cannot...need to be a truss manufacturer!!! the trusses one of course!!

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 23:23:03 GMT

Here is a picture of our mock-up. The valley is alot taller than what it is here in the photo. The tops will all be at the same height.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Ralph Wessel — Wed, 09 Mar 2005 23:47:02 GMT

Steve wrote:
I don't think FrameWorks is the answer. From what I could tell by reading their website, there is only one thing it can do that you can't already do with ArchiCAD.

Steve,

Please refer to my other post regarding many unique features provided by FrameWright http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=33733&highlight=#33733

There are businesses out there who would not be using ArchiCAD if it wasn't for the additional features in FrameWright. Some had made an effort to make ArchiCAD alone work by tweaking existing objects and spending countless hours with scheduling, but couldn't come up with a process that made real gains for their business. FrameWright is making a big difference in their productivity.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Steve Jepson — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:38:05 GMT

I think it's great that there is a add-on available specifically made for timber framing. I wish I could afford it. I have no doubt that is works better and faster than ArchiCAD alone. Is it worth $3,000.00 to me? Probably not.

The pictures you posted do not show me anything I can not already do with ArchiCAD. SOE and a few tweaks to some exitsing library parts and you can make anything you need to make a great set of working drawings and materials list for a timber frame project, or any other framing project for that matter. Making ArchiCAD drawings and list for Timber Frame projects is no more difficult than for conventional stick framing. If anything, it is easier. It has so few parts.

Re: Timber Frame Shop Drawings

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 21:36:17 GMT

Steve wrote:
I think it's great that there is a add-on available specifically made for timber framing. I wish I could afford it. I have no doubt that is works better and faster than ArchiCAD alone. Is it worth $3,000.00 to me? Probably not.

Maybe Ralph could clarify here the difference between the economical $300 FrameWright and the $3,000 FrameWright Pro. I haven't seen/tried either, but his web site seems to suggest that the $300 version is all that you guys need?

Thanks,
Karl