topic Barrel Vault SEO-no go in Modeling

Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Tom Krowka — Thu, 25 May 2023 14:34:13 GMT

Have two barrel vaults intersecting. They are made from beam profiles, which is quick and easy. However, can't seem to get the SEO intersection quite right. Have attached a snapshot of the closest I can come; done with a substraction with downwards extrusion. Have tried every other operation, nothing seems to mitre the common angles as one would expect. The vaults are four inches thick, they have trim attached at the bottom as part of the profile.
Any comments?

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Erika Epstein — Tue, 05 May 2009 00:21:19 GMT

There must be a simpler way, but this gives you what you want. (I think).
What you are missing is the intersection of the two barrel vaults. I made two sets of intersecting barrel vaults. The first pair I SEOd as you did. The second pair I SEOd but used the Intersect operation type. The latter fits in the first pair.

HTH

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

vfrontiers — Tue, 05 May 2009 05:30:35 GMT

I am not sure why you're SEO'ing at all? If you make them WALLS with the complex profile and set the "origin" at the center of the vault, wouldn't they clean up naturally?

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

vfrontiers — Tue, 05 May 2009 05:46:52 GMT

Well I'll be... it doesn't work either... so here's what I did.

Two intersecting walls of barrel shape.. Create a second barrel profile that is the NEGATIVE space of the original barrel. Then use BARREL2 to cut out both the barrel 1's...

Be sure to homogenize materials..

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Anonymous — Tue, 05 May 2009 05:55:27 GMT

vfrontiers wrote:
I am not sure why you're SEO'ing at all? If you make them WALLS with the complex profile and set the "origin" at the center of the vault, wouldn't they clean up naturally?

If I remember well , I was able to do that but the profile was half vault not full , so its like 4 walls . not next to AC to check .

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Barry Kelly — Tue, 05 May 2009 06:19:26 GMT

Or just use the Cross Vaults object from the Primitve Shapes section of the library?

Barry.

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Erika Epstein — Tue, 05 May 2009 06:28:30 GMT

Cross Vaults object? AFter all our fun coming up with obscure methods...I cracked up reading that.
It reminded me of the original Indiana Jones. The scene in the Cairo Markets where all kinds of weapons e.g. knives,swords, ropes are being used and finally Indiana just draws his gun and shoots the guy.

But, looking through the US library, I don't see a cross vault by any name. Is it indigenous to Western Australia?
Thanks

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Barry Kelly — Tue, 05 May 2009 07:35:13 GMT

Erika wrote:
But, looking through the US library, I don't see a cross vault by any name. Is it indigenous to Western Australia?
Thanks

I thought it came with the standard library (which may be a bit different to other country releases).
But I couldn't find it there.
It doesn't even seem to be in our Australian Essential library which was specifically put together for Aussie users.

It is actually called "Cross Vaults 12" and is very similar to the other Basic Shapes (or primitive shapes) in the library (cones, tubes, etc).

I did find something in the ACE library which was an amalgamation of all the various international libraries.
But that was only version 11 and it was in an LCF file that can't be extracted.
So it must be from an Archicad library somewhere.

The object I have is definitely version 12 and is not in a container file so it wasn't the ACE library.
I'll keep trying to track down where it came from and will post back.

Barry.

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Barry Kelly — Tue, 05 May 2009 07:50:07 GMT

It is in the standard library that came with the Australian flavour.
There is a section in the library called "Vaults 12".

I'm not sure if this is in the other national libraries.

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Tom Krowka — Tue, 05 May 2009 14:26:20 GMT

Had no idea this would get so complicated. At least the best minds in the business are working on the problem, right? Seems like it should clean up automatically, whether it's a beam or a wall complex profile.......

Sure would like to find the cross vault object. I wonder if it would work with two barrel vaults of different diameter, which is what I have.

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Erika Epstein — Tue, 05 May 2009 16:47:45 GMT

Tom,
You threw out a challenge! Don't forget archicad is today's Lincoln Logs, Erector set etc. It was fun. Who knows, now we all might start doing barrel vaults.

You might also look at Ralph Wessel's Objective . It's only a couple of hundred dollars. If they have it you would also end up with a parametric object, easily edited as the design develops.

here

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

rocorona — Tue, 05 May 2009 19:59:44 GMT

Barry wrote:
It is in the standard library that came with the Australian flavour.
There is a section in the library called "Vaults 12".

I'm not sure if this is in the other national libraries.

We too, in Italy, have them. They are in the standard Graphisoft library, not in the extra one added from Cigraph (the local distributor)... I wonder if it can be freely posted here.

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Tom Krowka — Tue, 05 May 2009 21:05:58 GMT

Can't find it in the US library......

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Ralph Wessel — Tue, 05 May 2009 22:29:55 GMT

Tom wrote:
Have two barrel vaults intersecting. They are made from beam profiles, which is quick and easy. However, can't seem to get the SEO intersection quite right.

OBJECTiVE has been suggested as a possible solution (thanks Erika!) and I thought a few images might help illustrate how that works. Referring to the attached image:

1) Draw the required cross-section - OBJECTiVE will create a profiled object from this
2) The profiled object can be cut up using OBJECTiVE's Split tool. Like ArchiCAD's Split, you simply trace a line where the object should be cut. The difference is that this will cut objects up in 3D.
3) The offcut(s) can be dragged away or deleted as required.
4) Repeatedly cutting the object (possibly from different orientations) can result in quite complex shapes. The profile can also be bent to a curve (horizontal or vertical).
5) An example of the barrel vault you are trying to produce.

Look here for more information.

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Erika Epstein — Tue, 05 May 2009 22:40:12 GMT

Tom,
In the AC8.1 subset library there is a cross vault.
HTH

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Erika Epstein — Wed, 06 May 2009 00:33:45 GMT

Oh Ralph, how ill-timed my finding the 8.1 vault. I didn't see your post before I made mine.
Your solution though is excellent as always. Parametric, easy to edit and evolve with the design.

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Anonymous — Wed, 06 May 2009 01:52:00 GMT

BTW: Here's a shot of one I did with profiled walls when this same question came up about a year and a half ago. The vaults are assembled with two halves meeting at the top. I'm pretty sure I used walls but beams should work as well.

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Ralph Wessel — Wed, 06 May 2009 09:55:26 GMT

Erika wrote:
Oh Ralph, how ill-timed my finding the 8.1 vault. I didn't see your post before I made mine.
Your solution though is excellent as always. Parametric, easy to edit and evolve with the design.

No worries - if your post solves the problem, then it's the right answer. It comes down to the required level of detailing and complexity. The 8.1 vault (and many other objects) don't provide a lot of flexibility, but will be fine in simple cases.

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 06 May 2009 15:32:03 GMT

The first method that I saw years ago for creating this type of cross vault was by David Nicholson-Cole as an object-making example (still in his Intro to Object Making book PDF - pages 30-31), requiring no GDL.

Basically, the concept is/was similar to those that Ralph uses with Objective, but the cutting is done with the polygonal marquee tool. The marquee-cut vault is viewed in 3D from the top, then save-as a new object which is then brought back in and multiplied around.

The nice advantage of Objective is that the cutting is live, with no extra object saving/etc, you have editable profiles, and many other options for shaping the result. Just slice and dice, as he illustrates.

Cheers,
Karl

PS Pages from Intro to Object Making attached, including copyright notice.... the entire PDF is available for download at various places, so I do not think this is a copyright violation...

Re: Barrel Vault SEO-no go

Tom Krowka — Wed, 06 May 2009 17:15:59 GMT

Ralph:

Regarding your product and cutting tool in reference to the intersection of the two vaults: I think that would be the hardest part of the process. How would I be able to tell, in 3d, with a split tool, where the two vaults would intersect. It seems it would difficult to trace that line.

Am going to experiment some this afternoon.....