topic Re: inaccuracy in Modeling

inaccuracy

Anonymous — Thu, 25 May 2023 16:30:06 GMT

Good Afternoon.

I´ve been using Archicad 12 for quite sometime now and recently encountered some problems regarding inaccuracy:

On a file I am working on I started to notice discrepancies for instance, wall are like 1 degree squewed so they dont exactly match the limits of the slabs for instance.

For some reason the main directions are not accurate.

I have tried to start the file fresh but after a while these inaccuracies start to appear.

If anyone know what may be the cause of this situation I would be very grateful.

Thank you.

Re: inaccuracy

Piotr Dobrowolski — Sat, 09 May 2009 16:17:09 GMT

Any CAD software is as acurate as the weakest link - the oparator 😉

When using SHIFT to lock orthogonal directions please looka at the tracker or coords palette....You have probably, by accident, locked the direction that is "almost" 0 / 90 degrees (maybe something drawn "by hand" not by snap or by typing in the coords).
Back to the point look on the tracker while drawing - and check if the direction is orthogonal or it is your selected direcion.

Best Regards,
Piotr

Re: inaccuracy

Anonymous — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:12:57 GMT

yes the operator is always guilty, and it is his fault if he is not able to model a blob with archicad.😉
No seriously there is an issue with AC and accuracy. Not that AC is not accurate, but the way the interface is done makes it (very) difficult to notice and avoid small inaccuracies in angles or point snaps.

I'm sorry to say that is maybe the only feature where Autocad is better than AC, but that is an important feature.

Please Graphisoft make this better as there are a lot us annoyed by that, and a lot that don't dare to say it.

When you have used Autocad you miss this feeling of being secure when you zoom in .

Re: inaccuracy

Djordje — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:56:26 GMT

The weakest part of a workstation is between the chair and the monitor ... and it's not the keyboard

Accuracy is OK as long as you follow the coordinates and use ONLY snaps. No eyeballing ... in ANY software!

Re: inaccuracy

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:44:51 GMT

Djordje you repeat the same thing as Piotr, it's getting boring.
We are not saying that AC is not accurate, but that it is not as easy and pleasant to be accurate as in some other programs, and for that precise matter I feel better in A...CAD. And I'm sorry to say I'm not the only one

Re: inaccuracy

Chazz — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:05:39 GMT

MERCY wrote:
If anyone know what may be the cause of this situation I would be very grateful..

I don't know what can cause it but we had a new guy here who was let loose with the software and somehow his whole project was about 1.x degrees off and holding the shift key only constrained to the weird angle. The Mouse constraints were still 45 and 90 degrees. I was baffled. He decided to use VectorWorks instead....

So even though I can't reproduce the problem on my own, I'm not so quick to designate this a pbcak issue

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pbcak

Re: inaccuracy

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:56:08 GMT

This is completely true. I assembled a plan consisting of basically a bunch of boxes. I snapped the corners to each other, using only the check mark snap indicator. And yet our civil engineer sent it back citing inaccuracy. Upon zooming in to where I can't zoom any further, I found that nearly every box was slightly off. This is not an operator issue, this is an Archicad issue with inaccurate snapping.

Since I've originally posted this, I've learned to set my tolerance to the max of 1/64" (I wish I could set it higher than that...), and have learned that the lines drawn in my attachment are in fact off. What under a lower drawing tolerance had been perceived by Archicad as parallel and 28' is in fact off by 1/32" in the y coordinate. In reality, such a discrepancy is minor, but in the course of a large building it starts to add up until you can't figure out why you're off 1/2" or perhaps worse.

Ultimately, Archicad should have higher tolerances and should set the snaps to be more sensitive. It should not tell me that I am snapping to a corner (element snaps on) if I'm not really snapped.

Re: inaccuracy

Dennis Lee — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:59:04 GMT

Well, I have to give one more vote for pbcak on this one. All the cad software I've used before has had these kinds of problems, and I don't think it's because all of them had accuracy errors.

Used to drive me crazy when I dimension plans / details drawn by someone else on autocad and give me all kinds of weird dimensions. Usually it's because people used the "near" osnap, which I never understood why it was there. Anyway, Archicad has similar snaps, guidelines, etc., so you just need to know what each of the symbols mean when you draw it in the first place. Solid pencil, good. Solid check mark good. Mercedes symbol, sometimes not that good, and so on...

Re: inaccuracy

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:33:10 GMT

kgrossman wrote:
Since I've originally posted this, I've learned to set my tolerance to the max of 1/64" (I wish I could set it higher than that...), and have learned that the lines drawn in my attachment are in fact off. What under a lower drawing tolerance had been perceived by Archicad as parallel and 28' is in fact off by 1/32" in the y coordinate. In reality, such a discrepancy is minor, but in the course of a large building it starts to add up until you can't figure out why you're off 1/2" or perhaps worse.

Ultimately, Archicad should have higher tolerances and should set the snaps to be more sensitive. It should not tell me that I am snapping to a corner (element snaps on) if I'm not really snapped.

A few questions to help diagnose the problem - How did you draw the lines originally? What is the angle that the lines are drawn at? Is it a nice round figure, or arbitrary? Did you use the background grid to snap to? Did you use shift to lock the lines at the angle when drawing. Did you use temporary guide lines. Where are you setting this 'tolerance' you mention?

It would be helpful if you could describe the process where this inaccuracy consistently occurs so the rest of us can try to reproduce this problem.

Re: inaccuracy

Erika Epstein — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 23:04:50 GMT

Another place to check is your Cursor snap range. You find this in
Work environment>Mouse constraints and Methods>Cursor snap range

Until recently AC out of the box default was at 3 pixels. Recent versions sets this at 5 pixels. I found seen many people often snapping to the wrong point because of this coupled with them not zooming in as much as they should. We all have scroll mice to zoom in and out.

Needless to say I reset it.

Re: inaccuracy

David Maudlin — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:49:11 GMT

kgrossman wrote:
...I've learned to set my tolerance to the max of 1/64" (I wish I could set it higher than that...),...

Under Project Preferences > Working Units & Levels, under Model Units, change from Feet & Fractional Inches to Feet & Decimal Inches with 3 Decimals, the Coordinates Palette will display much greater accuracy than 1/64". This will not affect the Dimensions used in documentation. I have found this setting very valuable for seeing and avoiding tiny modeling errors. I also find numeric input easier (typing .25" rather than 1/4").

HTH

David

Re: inaccuracy

KeesW — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 07:32:33 GMT

I too have noticed that the horizantal and/or vertical angle can be out by a fraction of a degree. Just enought to stuff dimensions but hard to see unless one keeps an eye on the coordinates. When this happens, even though the SHIFT key is set correctly and used, lines are just a smidge of horizontal. I don't know what causes it because i always draw horizontal and vertical lines with the SHIFT key, or be snapping to known correct points. Like most things in computers, it is nearly always the operator's fault - but we don't always know what we've done to cause it.

Be alert but not alarmed!

Re: inaccuracy

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:53:27 GMT

shift sometimes snaps to wrong angles.
use the guidlines. it s much easier and you don t have to use both hands

Re: inaccuracy

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:55:16 GMT

also i use to constrain angle and x,y coord which alows to zoom and pan after locking

Re: inaccuracy

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:04:52 GMT

I'm sorry to say that it's not that easy to maintain a very accurate model in ArchiCAD. Snaps only, guidelines, all that, but my models are still inaccurate.

I've had about 9-10 years experience with AutoCAD, one with MicroStation and about 8 months ago I switched to ArchiCAD. I really like the software, but I can see that my ArchiCAD models are way less accurate than my very first one in AutoCAD when I was a student! (..many years ago, unfortunately)

I guess I still have a lot to learn about how to customize the program to improve this, but I find that inaccuracy is one of the weakest points of ArchiCAD (after the stair tool, that is its worst feature).

Enrico

Re: inaccuracy

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:11:44 GMT

Enrico wrote:
I guess I still have a lot to learn about how to customize the program to improve this...

Accuracy in ArchiCAD (with very few exceptions) is a great as with most CAD software and is entirely based on the user entering precise values when any element is created, dragged, stretched, etc. Unlike REVIT, you can NEVER 'read' a value in the Tracker or Coordinate palette, assume it looks good and then click. Only data entry gives precision. Further, make your working units and dimensions in working views be a fine as possible (1/64" for Imperial, 1 mm metric) so that you may see your input errors sooner rather than later.

It is all about learning to model properly in ArchiCAD.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: inaccuracy

Djordje — Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:41:55 GMT

Learn how to enter the relative coordinates and what which cursor shape means. It's that simple.

Forget about the guidelines - IMHO they are there for the effect and don't actually DO anything (personal opionion!)

As a geezer and old fashioned person (you know, 35mm camera from 1977 and all that), the first thing I do after installing a new ArchiCAD is to switch the Coordinate box and Control box on. Habit? Knowing how to use them? Both?

Re: inaccuracy

David Shorter — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:19:18 GMT

Actually it doesn't matter how course you set the accuracy as you can enter in any level of accuracy and ArchiCAD will understand and place accordingly. For instance if you set your working units to 1/2" you can still enter distances as 1/64" and the dimensions will reflect this.

Re: inaccuracy

Petros Ioannou — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:10:40 GMT

I agree 100% with Djordje.
Having the experience of teaching AC I can tell you for sure that once Guidelines were introduced, student's drawings became more inaccurate.
The reason was obvious, they started relying on the visual aids and never really get to know how to accurate input dimension and draw.

Re: inaccuracy

David Shorter — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:42:07 GMT

I thought about not replying but I couldn't resist...
In Australia the introduction of Guidelines has stopped completely the problems associated with inaccuracy.
The use of Guidelines in association with Tracker gives both a visual and a numeric option for inputting distances, if you are not using them you are making your lives a lot more difficult.
Seems to be a training (or retraining issue)javascript:emoticon(':shock:')