topic Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections in Modeling

please help, i think I just lost my sections

Anonymous — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:00:53 GMT

I'm a new AC user, and a few days away from sending out my first AC project to bid. I think I just had a disaster, though.

I went to delete a section I cut in the wrong place, and i confirmed that this action cannot be undone. A few minutes later, though, i noticed that my entire folder "sections" in the View Map is gone. Gone. Did i accidentally delete the WHOLE THING? And if so, am I in huge trouble? The sections are still visible in my sheet layouts, but no longer give me "open source view" option in the context menu.

Am I in huge trouble here? I can edit the sections in the Project Map, but I am worried I have lost all those views.

I think I'm going to vomit...

Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections

Ernest Atanasiu — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:32:12 GMT

you can recreate them by using the 'clone' option.

you actually lost the 'papers' that contained the drawings. the modeled information is still there. sheet layouts were connected to those views so it's normal they don't have the 'open' option anymore.

study the difference between project map and view map and what cloning a folder does.

Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections

Anonymous — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 22:14:22 GMT

thanks uisanata. That is a relief. Only an hour or so to get it all back, instead of god knows how much. Whew. And, I just learned more about how the project map/view map works.

Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections

Barry Kelly — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 01:55:06 GMT

As you have discovered deleting part of a cloned view deletes the entire clone.
But as mentioned these are just views and you can create or delete as many of these as you wish without affecting the actual model.

In the Project Map you still have the original sections, elevations, details etc.
You can re-create the views in the view map from these.
You will then need to re-link the drawings in the layouts to look at these new views.

Deleting the section/elevations in the project map or the markers from the floor plan will result in the loss of information - but only the 2D information stored in those sections.
The 3D model will still be intact and a new section can be re-created.
You just have to add any 2D data back into it.
Another reason to model as much as you can and not rely on 2D line work.

Barry.

Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections

Link — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 04:05:49 GMT

Barry wrote:
Another reason to model as much as you can and not rely on 2D line work.

Or use clones - delete one, delete them all.

Not for me.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 04:41:05 GMT

Link wrote:
Barry wrote:
Another reason to model as much as you can and not rely on 2D line work.
Or use clones - delete one, delete them all.

Not for me.

Cheers,
Link.

hm. So if you don't like using clones, what is the good way to organize your workflow? Do you "save current view" of each item in the Project Map that you want to carry though to the final output? To be honest, avoiding the "delete one, delete all" situation sounds appealing. That misadventure scared the bejeezus out of me, and I would be really sad to accidentally lose some 2d linework that way. I don't have much of it, but don't like redoing ANYTHING if it can be avoided by a fault-tolerant workflow. Perhaps someone could speak up on what are the advantages of clones over saved views, and vice versa?

Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections

Barry Kelly — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 06:43:03 GMT

Generally I only clone the stories.
That way if I add a new storey I instantly get views for the floor plan, electrical plan, slab and ceiling layouts, etc.
I don't clone the site plan view as I only need the ground floor site plan - not first, second floor or basement sit plans.
(I put my site plan in a site layer on the ground floor - some use a separate storey for it).

Since the section and elevation tools have been separated I have also been cloning my elevations - but it is pretty rare in my line of work to have to add more elevations, the 4 I have set in my template are usually sufficient.

I don't clone the sections as I may create dummy ones for checking construction and I also use them for details and my internal room elevations as well. Also they are usually viewed with different layers and scales any way. It is only worth cloning a folder if all the views in it are to be the same scale and layers otherwise you might just as well set them up manually (you can change individual views in a clone to be different from the others - you just can't delete one view only).

The internal elevations might be a good one to clone as well but there are still bugs with that tool so I don't use it.

Just recently I have started to clone the 3D Documents as well so as we create new ones we instantly get the views set up for use in the layouts.

It only takes a few seconds to create a view manually so there is not a big deal in using clones.
It is just nice that the views appear automatically.
Especially when you are dealing with a whole bunch of different users in the office.
It is a bit different if you are just working for yourself as you tend to know what you have or haven't set up.

Barry.

Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections

Link — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 07:33:35 GMT

Well I can only speak for myself, but I have built a large number of highly customized templates for offices of all sizes.

I never use clones. Mostly because they are in the wrong place. Clones aren't valuable at a Project Map Level, they would be perfect in the layout book and publisher sets. If we could clone part of a book to be on different masters, or a publisher set to publish in a different format, then we'd have something we could use. But why would I want all my viewpoint types cloned? For example if I clone stories for my floor plan views, what do I do with the roof story? Or if I have wall sections cloned with my building sections? You get the point. Very rarely will you want all of one viewpoint type all the same in the view map.

Then there's the issue of all for one and one for all, as you've discovered. Don't start me on what happens when you add new viewpoints to a cloned publisher set.

I actually pre-link all viewpoints to views to layout book to publisher sets and remove as/if required.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections

sinceV6 — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 00:43:40 GMT

It's interesting to see how other people look at things. I rarely use manually created views anymore. I almost always clone everything in the project, even if I only use 1 view of the entire structre of that clone (stories, elevations, sections, 3d docs, etc.) I use regular folders for organization (like design, project, construction docs, etc) and inside each, the clones. I may then have a clone for sections inside design, and another clone for sections inside project. What I do is name each cloned folder as the thing I'm using for layout.
Say I cloned Stories to layout them. Then I need a reference story. I would clone the stories again and name that clone "reference story X". Same with sections or anything else. If I know that I won't use a view contained in that clone and I want to make sure I don't select it, I change its name to ***. In the story reference example, I would change the story view name to "reference". Then I can easily change the layer combination or scale to that clone. If I need another view, is right there.
For publishing, is the same. I usually clone the sets or subsets to publish. If I add or delete layouts, the published documents are complete.
I learned about cloned views here
http://www.aecbytes.com/tipsandtricks/2007/issue24-archicad.html
and never looked back again.

Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections

Link — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 06:59:48 GMT

I'm not debating right and wrong here, but maybe it's worth discussing the point of clones. Their main reason for existing is to automate and save time.

I find with a clone all approach, you end up with a whole bunch of views that will never be used. Some may call that clutter, which may be okay in a small office, but will certainly lead to confusion in a larger one.

Clones are supposed to save time because when a new viewpoint (such as a story) is created, a view will automatically be created. But if we have renamed our views, then we must rename our new cloned views also. Depending on the structure of the view map, many may argue that is actually slower and more error prone (if you forget). This is especially true when those views are already linked directly into a Publisher Set.

Consider if we could clone actual view maps! No renaming needed!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: please help, i think I just lost my sections

sinceV6 — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:03:40 GMT

NO! NO! YOU ARE WRONG!!!
Just kidding....

We all use different workflows, and using clones has worked for me like a charm.

I agree with you that sometimes clones give you a lot of views that won't be used, but I'd usually need the views inside a cloned folder with the same options. If I create four section viewpoints, when placed on layout I try to use the same options for each (that's why I prefer to clone) and not different options (scale, layers, etc.) for each section. For instance, if I'm layouting sections at 1:100, I'd clone "Sections" and name the clone (not the individual views) "Sections 1:100". If I then need one or two of those at a different scale, I'd do the same, and name the clone "Sections 1:50".

The base name of each viewpoint is taken care at the project map (section 1-1, section 2-2). If a view, inside a clone is to be renamed it's because it will be used several times in layouts (one could use the custom name in layout, but it would be an instance name; changing the name in the view map, would change the name in all placed instances). So in the end, there's little need for renaming views. The only thing to name accurately is the cloned folder, to keep track of basic options that it stores.

Clones also give me the advantage that when I move to a different phase in the project, I can easily ctrl-drag the cloned folder in the view map (to a different, regular folder) and quickly change options like layer combo, model view options, scale etc, and prepare a new set of plans or sections by again ctrl-dragging sets of layouts and linking to the new cloned views.

I could copy the clones for "design" process "Sections 1:100" and "Sections 1:50" that had "presentation layer combo" and put the new clones in a "construction" folder, change layer combo to "construction phase", and relink new layouts to the new clones.

For me, creating manual views for each viewpoint in the project map to be used like this would need more time, and a lot of attention to manage settings when saving each view.

I rarely publish views. I usually publish the layouts; but I guess its the same. While you can rename the views in the publisher set, I never do this, as, like you said, it's error prone. I always create the shortcut (not drag in view organizer) to the set or subset of layouts. Rename the layout, the publisher linked view gets renamed. Same thing for views, I guess. With the shorcut, published views/layouts are always complete, and with correct names.

Didn't quite follow you with the
"Consider if we could clone actual view maps! No renaming needed!" thing...

In the end, like I said, is a personal thing.
Best regards.