topic to the architects in Modeling

to the architects

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 18:51:15 GMT

Hello

I'd like to ask the architects:

- imagine you live in a box made of glass, can you hear the noise around outside the box? a lot?

- imagine you live in a box made of textile, is it possible to build? is there any textile (like 'intelligent' textile) we can use as a wall and that could be able to stop the noise , as well as a dividing wall in plaster for example?

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!! ... even if these questions seem stupid!

Re: to the architects

Dwight — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:22:54 GMT

One layer of glass resonates.

Three layers of glass with the outer layers in the same plane and the middle layer canted is the acceptable way to sound-insulate a glass box. Special effort must be made to securely seal all edges because sound comes thru cracks.

If you can seal fabric to the passage of air, you can begin to build a soundproof box. Think "fluffy with a goopy coating on the outside."

I did a broadcasting studio for my final project at architecture school. Back when broadcasting used tubes.

Re: to the architects

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:38:10 GMT

thanks very much for this answer!

If you can seal fabric to the passage of air, you can begin to build a soundproof box. Think "fluffy with a goopy coating on the outside."

oops, I don't really understand what you mean... could you describe more? where is the textile? the glass?......

thanx again
(don't forget i'm french haha )

Re: to the architects

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:52:33 GMT

+
PS: and a layer of textile between two layers of glass, is it possible? good? sound-insulating?

thanx

Re: to the architects

Dwight — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:09:23 GMT

if you mean a layer of woven fabric - no.
if you mean fluffy insulation - no.

princilpes of sound insulation are:

1: sealing - no cracks or air movement
2: mass - heavy things absorb sound energy
3: asymmetry- oblique things disrupt sound waves

Faced with your wacky situation, I'd be using heavy glass and a rigid panel - see Kalwall

http://www.kalwall.com/main.htm

pilkington:

http://www.pilkington.com/international+products/activ/usa/english/default.htm

Re: to the architects

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:17:27 GMT

and.... you wrote

If you can seal fabric to the passage of air, you can begin to build a soundproof box. Think "fluffy with a goopy coating on the outside."

I don't really understand what you mean... could you describe more? where is the textile? the glass?......

thanx

Re: to the architects

Dwight — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:22:09 GMT

fabric is not a good sound insulator when used as a divider.

You need heavy, asymmetric sealed rigid surfaces to insulate from airborne sound.

Re: to the architects

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:41:16 GMT

ok thanks.

hey, actually I'd like to make a bedroom surrounded with textile... that's why i ask so many questions... perhaps I need a special structure?

and do you know where I could find on the internet some examples of sun roof (like the one in leather for the cars) I could use vertically for the walls of this bedroom ?

thanks for your answer

Re: to the architects

Dwight — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:50:46 GMT

Hmm.
A glass panel that moves, in the roof of a car, turned vertical so that it slides upward to open?
Hmm.
In North America, we call that a "window."

Perhaps you mean "shutters?" My hotel in Paris had a lttle button there, where a rolling panel would come down to keep out the late night shrieks of the drug addicts. And their customers. The shutter worked well for light, too. I never knew people would set their hair on fire like that.
No, wait. That was London.

http://www.shutters-online.web.com/rolling.html

Re: to the architects

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:06:24 GMT

I didn't mean a glass panel that moves, in the roof of a car....
but a leather (or other fabric) panel that moves in the roof a car.

have you seen this, thick and turned vertical 'so that it slides upward to open' automatically?

thx

Re: to the architects

Jacques Toerien — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 14:46:41 GMT

Fabric glass??? Well, there is a company in the UK that designs special structural glass with a fabric laminate layer. (Anything you want, up to a certian thickness...I think 1.5mm) The company is called FusionGlass and can be reached here.

We had a CPD on their products a while ago and their stuff is really good! You may need some input from an acoustic consultant with regard to the thickness and detailing of the glass.

Good luck.

-JT

Re: to the architects

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:47:58 GMT

Thanks a lot for your link...

But I'm talking about FABRIC WALL... Do you know some walls (sound-insulate) made of fabric (textile) ??

Thanks for your help.

Re: to the architects

Dwight — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:01:35 GMT

Remind me again. What are you trying to do? Trying to make soundproof fabric sounds quite strange.

Re: to the architects

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 23:18:50 GMT

Trying to make soundproof fabric sounds quite strange.

Yes that's strange I know but that's what I would like!
Hmm hmm
I'd like a "wall" (not a curtain of course) in fabric for a room..... possible?

Re: to the architects

Dwight — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 23:33:53 GMT

How would this fabric wall stand up?

Re: to the architects

Aussie John — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 00:12:04 GMT

you can get reasonable acoustic properties from using one pane of laminated glass that is constructed with a double thickness interlayer and different size glass ie 4mm glass .76 interlayer and 6mm glass. Not as good as Dwights initial suggestion for sound isolation though.

Whilst fabric will do virtually nothing to stop sound transmission it does act to reduce reverberation of the sound already in the room. It can also help mitgate the heat/cold radiation issues with glass.

Putting fabric between glass seems a waste of time as the internal acoustic properties of fabric are lost as well as the tactile, texture properties and shadow effects. That said, glass can be screened to put permanent artwork onto one of its surfaces eg the fabrics pattern.

Re: to the architects

Dwight — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 00:31:10 GMT

My favorite acoustic wall covering is sintered aluminum - I use this in the recording studio.

http://www.almute.com/

Re: to the architects

Aussie John — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:01:41 GMT

Dwight wrote:
My favorite acoustic wall covering is sintered aluminum - I use this in the recording studio.

http://www.almute.com/

Ive never heard of that - maybe it is called something else here

Re: to the architects

Dwight — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:05:40 GMT

foamed metal of all kinds is becoming used in acoustic and decorative ways.

I am certain they have it in Australia, especially those noisy pubs.
A bloke can yell right into the center of an almute panel and nothing comes back. A sound sponge. And of course, they can be steam cleaned without altering their acoustic value unlike most other acoustics - foamed plastic especially. Wonderful for hospital kitchens for after the patients revolt at the revolting food and throw it all back into the kitchen. Using the arm that isn't busy with the crutch, that is.

Re: to the architects

Aussie John — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:12:05 GMT

Dwight wrote:
Wonderful for hospital kitchens

Sounds like a great bacteria farm