topic Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad in Modeling

Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 00:56:30 GMT

I am working on Revit since 2003 ( version 5.0), it is easy to see that ArchiCad is way in front. compability they will tell you... Thanks to Revit version 9.0, now it is easier to <translate> your work in Autocad, for <the others>. Anyway, Autodesk's product are compatible with each other only in <our minds> they are selling you < Autodesk >

Can somebody tell me if ArchiCad 10 is supported by the new Apple-Intel Technology and the new OSx ? So I can switch now.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

TomWaltz — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 01:43:59 GMT

sylvain wrote:
I am working on Revit since 2003 ( version 5.0), it is easy to see that ArchiCad is way in front. compability they will tell you... Thanks to Revit version 9.0, now it is easier to <translate> your work in Autocad, for <the others>. Anyway, Autodesk's product are compatible with each other only in <our minds> they are selling you < Autodesk >

Can somebody tell me if ArchiCad 10 is supported by the new Apple-Intel Technology and the new OSx ? So I can switch now.

AC9 and the original AC10 release do not support MacIntel at all. There is an Archicad 10 MacIntel version in testing currently. My reseller tells me it's due in July.

If you are running Windows on the MacIntel, I understand the Windows version of AC10 runs quite well.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:50:08 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
AC9 and the original AC10 release do not support MacIntel at all. There is an Archicad 10 MacIntel version in testing currently. My reseller tells me it's due in July.

If you are running Windows on the MacIntel, I understand the Windows version of AC10 runs quite well.

While not officially supported, AC9 and 10 both run quite well under Rosetta (10 is a bit slower but I am using it with no difficulty for real work). I can recall only two crashes with AC10 on my MacBook Pro and none in AC9. I am constrained from reporting about the Mactel beta - but I think it's safe for me to say that you have nothing to worry about.

And, yes, both versions run well in WinXP on the Mactel.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

David Larrew — Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:23:10 GMT

Speaking of Revit...

I just went to the latest Autodesk marketing show for Revit 9. Revit has come a long way since it's introduction. But it still has a way to go to match ArchiCAD as a complete solution package.

I did notice some nice new features that Revit 9 now has that I'd really like ArchiCAD to implement. One big feature is their "obscure element option" for 3D detailing (for showing hidden lines). Revit also seems to handle the automatic sheet drawing references much better than AC (more automatic - less set-up/work).

If anyone thinks that "Teamwork" is a hard to use... Try sharing a project file in Revit - talk about a nightmare! The presenters even had to do some back-peddling to defend the logic.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Rakela Raul — Fri, 30 Jun 2006 03:24:44 GMT

great info david, cmon man, share some more !!

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Jul 2006 05:55:21 GMT

I went recently to a <smoke show> of Archicad. Unfortunately it was a disaster too. I downloaded a student version last week ( is there any real demo available ?) to get through it because I was very discouraged, I realized that day that I have learned so much just by my interest in Archicad... My advice to you is <BE-CARE-FULL>; those guys are not working with the package, they are only selling it. It is very bad, I am a Revit user, I know that Archicad is way in front but the marketing is not efficient at all. I had money in my pocket that day, it never went out...I am still going through the <student version> for my evaluation... the software is awesome. REMEMBER, ASK A USER. The TEAMWORK is called WORKSETS in Revit; it is like punching in and out of determined <work area>, (components can be assign to a specific workset) and it is very efficient when you need extra visibility control while your on your own.(solo no sharing). When you shared your model to other user you can assign specific areas to specific users. You can shared everything to everyone too. Let's say I am using the ext. shell workset and you are using the int. one. If you move a wall and your wall interfere with <my> window (because the windows have been set to the ext.shell workset, let's say) you will need to move the window, right. Once you will pick the window and try to move it, you will be informed by Revit that I am working on the ext.shell and you will have to ask me the permission to move it. Yep...You won't be able to move it until I give you the permission to do it. So built in Revit there is a communication system between user to control those <changes from above>. Looks good you will say, imagine that you are waiting for my permission and I am in the bathroom...Patience my friend. Teamwork in Archicad looks easier and more logical. Anyway, I am very anxious to switch to Archicad...

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:22:39 GMT

"sylvain" wrote:
I went recently to a <smoke show> of Archicad. Unfortunately it was a disaster too.
C'mon give the guys a break. There is a lot to learn with this one, If your show was a disaster it was probably due to just being so new in the market. Typically the dealers don't get their hands on it till a week before it's release.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:32:52 GMT

sylvain wrote:
Patience my friend. Teamwork in Archicad looks easier and more logical. Anyway, I am very anxious to switch to Archicad...

In Teamwork one can marquee an empty space not associated with the model and not have to reserve a layer or ask permissions... just send and receive. The existing model can not be edited with this method...but I like that especially if it is ready to embellish w/ dims and notes.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:52:16 GMT

Interesting thread. Resellers often don't know software as well as their users so sales presentations are often 'crash and burn' sessions! (Have done a few of those myself where ignorance was not the culprit as much as badly behaving hardware.)

Having not used Teamwork -- and not completely understanding how it works -- perhaps someone would like to describe how it works to an AC alumni user (me). Esp with regards to all the files that are interacting on the workstation, and the server.

With regards to Revit: sylvain is correct. All Revit files start as single user files. Clicking the worksets button creates worksets in the current open file; the next save after this creates the central file. You copy the central file to your hard drive; that's the local file. You work on the local file, and click the "Save to Central" button to update the central file and get updates in the central file that you don't have.

Worksets that contain 3D objects are named by the user -- Exterior shell, Interior Partitions, Structure, etc. When a user selects an object -- wall, dimension, whatever -- Revit immediately contacts the central file to see if the object is available, if so you can edit it, if not, it tells you who's got it signed out and you can at that point ask them to hand over control through the Editing Requests dialog box.

Worksets aren't hard -- it's the collaborative process that has all these indepedent CAD users unglued. You have to work together, and sometimes people don't like that.

As for files, there's the local and central files, and that's it. On megaprojects you can link files together but walls from linked files don't clean up with walls in the host file. So you got us beat there 😉

If someone wouldn't mind doing a desktop share over the phone one day, we could have a good look at each other's software and take notes, and report back to the users with what we find. A lot of the information circulating on these (and AUGIs forums) is because the posters don't really know how The Other Program works. So I'd prefer to talk to a knowledgable AC user -- no resellers! I'm currently working on contract for a number of parties -- including the reseller in my sig, so I'm only interested in getting and giving the straight goods.

Any takers? I got some huuuuge projects I could show, and some midsize projects too.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 02:47:09 GMT

One thing that amazes me is how AutoCad guys are committed to Autodesk. They want to switch to BIM software so they don't even look around but go for Revit, even though that Revit is far more different from AutoCad than other BIM packages (AC, ARC+, TriForma). This is amazing considering that they did not wanted to switch to BIM before because of those differences. Even communication between Revit and Autocad suck. Is it real commitment or pure marketing magic ?

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 07:13:51 GMT

Miki wrote:
One thing that amazes me is how AutoCad guys are committed to Autodesk.

That's one side of the equation. The other is all the AutoCAD users who are so fed up with Autodesk that they are saying, "If we're making the switch to BIM anyway, why don't we look around?"

My two most active client's right now are in the process of switching from AutoCAD to ArchiCAD. Both considered Revit but preferred ArchiCAD both functionally and because it is not an Autodesk product. (There is another firm in town that did go with Revit.)

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Rob — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 07:31:26 GMT

to metanoia,

AC works similarly to your described concept. Typically you create a solo project that can be teamworked by setting the administrator and the teamleader passwords and names (optional). and that's basically it...
The AC system creates the central file accessible by buttons receive changes, send and receive changes, sign in, sign out, change my work space and info/notes/comments buttons. any save or save as action will create just a local copy on a particular users comp. to prevent sending/receiving changes all the time to the central file (networking speed etc...)
Now, you can sign in as
Administrator (virtually file servicing and password managing)

Team leader (absolute power-so called exclusive access mode and privileges like creating new sections elevations, external links etc. - supervising)

Teammate (self-explanatory, you can define your workspace by set of layers, marquee area on the plan (partial storeys), storeys (plans), sections/elevations, details, layout sheets - very flexible - when you are signing in there is a list of all available sections/elevations, plans, details, layouts etc and system will warn you if you were trying to take over already taken element) - it works based on already reserved workspaces basically you can not share the very same space with anybody else but your workspace could be assembled of any possible combination mentioned above. To change (redefine) your workspace you would hit the change my work space button. In case you need to take over/release any particular part let say on the plan which is not within your workspace you can retrieve or release it to/from other teammates (without redefining your work space) so this option is possible as well

Mark-up (self-explanatory)

View only (self-explanatory)

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:07:19 GMT

Miki wrote:
One thing that amazes me is how AutoCad guys are committed to Autodesk. They want to switch to BIM software so they don't even look around but go for Revit, even though that Revit is far more different from AutoCad than other BIM packages (AC, ARC+, TriForma). This is amazing considering that they did not wanted to switch to BIM before because of those differences. Even communication between Revit and Autocad <b>[censored]</b>. Is it real commitment or pure marketing magic ?

It's the devil you know... so while they're switching platforms (scary enough) they know they have something resembling a support system (resellers, for what they're worth -- mileage varies). So switching platforms AND companies at once is pretty scary for the usually conservative design community. They're not so much committed as shackled!

If you've ever had the misfortune to use Arch Desktop you'll understand why we think it's easier to go from Acad to Revit than Acad to ADT. Also, there are market pressures now to "go 3D" that weren't as strong three years ago. Clients are beginning to demand virtual buildings.

Don't forget that Revit was not designed by Autodesk -- so it shared none of their baggage. Funny story: when Revit was bought by Adesk in 2002 they changed the DWG export format to be the proprietary rather than OpenDWG format. And for a few weeks, some DWGs made in Revit couldn't be opened in Acad, LOL. They fixed it of course... Revit's Acad export is very good.

Thanks Robert for your explanations. Still haven't heard from anyone who wants to look under the hood of my Revit 9.0 -- PM me if you're interested. Woody Schemp from out east took me up on the offer some time ago, but I want someone with significant projects to talk to.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Djordje — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:02:04 GMT

metanoia wrote:
It's the devil you know... so while they're switching platforms (scary enough) they know they have something resembling a support system (resellers, for what they're worth -- mileage varies). So switching platforms AND companies at once is pretty scary for the usually conservative design community. They're not so much committed as shackled!

Sorry, Wes - WHAT do you know about the devil? Completely twisted logic. I drive a Daewoo. It is now rebadged Chevrolet. So if I buy a Corvette (I am entitled to! Midlife crisis! ) I will take it to the same guys that caused my engine to overheat once? Don't think so. But John Doe would, as the badge on the car and on the building is.

Marketing inertia ... that's "all".

The problem here is that the devil knows (on the average) exactly nothing about Revit. Not that many of them know anything about AutoCAD, either.

I am now fighting an Autodesk onslaught in the office where I manage the design dept. They kindly remind you of BSA, then move in ... when I officially responded that we do not use Autodesk software, the REGIONAL DISTRIBUTOR showed up in half an hour ... desperate for the sales?

The truth is - people don't know anything about the software and don't care. Matthew is lucky to have clients that think and are capable of evaluation.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Laura Yanoviak — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:25:45 GMT

I believe there is some sort of promotion going on where if a firm upgrades their AutoCAD, they can receive Revit at a significantly reduced price. I know of 3 firms in the Denver area that chose Revit strictly based on this reduced cost (vs. the cost of AC). IMHO, not the best way to make this sort of decision...

We were one of those firms that preferred AC because it is not an Autodesk product...we also thoroughly reviewed both packages (at the time AC9 and Revit 7) and found AC superior for a number of reasons...

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Srinivas — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:40:04 GMT

Great Offer going, from a long time here in India

If any one wants to buy AutoCAD license Autodesk resellers are pushing Revit also. They are clubbing AutoCAD and Revit as a single pack and selling. Otherwise they never be able to sell Revit alone.

This means we (Distributors for ArchiCAD) are indeed doing a great job here.Our competitor is feeling the heat. Nice feeling to have when you go to bed every day,especially when you know the competitor is Autodesk.

Cheers,
Srini.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:43:25 GMT

Djordje wrote:
Sorry, Wes - WHAT do you know about the devil? Completely twisted logic.

I know the devil quite well -- and my posts have gotten me some slapping around by the devil himself, thank you very much. You think I toe the Autodesk line? Not hardly, mate!

The logic may be twisted, but that's how many people think. *You and I* know it's twisted, but it's their security.

Many people in the Autodesk juggernaut have no clue about how the software works. They just want to make money selling it. (It will be interesting to see if things change with Bass at the helm instead of Bartz). I have met enough people who work for the devil that really ought to be out selling houses or something instead of putting complex software into the hands of people whose business they barely understand. Given the competence of the programmers and product designers, the presence of such ignorant sales-type people in the Autodesk food chain is really a shame.

Note to Laura Y: isn't it funny how people choose software on cost alone? As if all programs were created equal, as long as they cost the same! I don't blame you for avoiding Autodesk. But if you can locate a good reseller who can keep you rolling, using Revit can be quite pleasurable

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Scott Davis — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:06:14 GMT

Laura wrote:
...and found AC superior for a number of reasons...

Care to elaborate?

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Laura Yanoviak — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:21:13 GMT

Scott wrote:
Care to elaborate?

Laura wrote:
I originally worked with AC back in '92 - '93 and loved it -- moved back to the mainland (from Hawaii), and everything here in Denver was AutoCAD. The firm I worked for in 2002 was looking to transition to ADT, and I knew that even the AC of 10 years prior made ADT out to be a joke. Of course, the idea of changing CAD software fell on deaf ears.

A group at the firm I'm with now had a similar experience when presenting AC to the partners at about the same time. Then AutoDesk purchased Revit and "BIM" became mainstream...

I was given the task of evaluating BIM software at the beginning of 2005, and it soon became clear the choice was between AC(9) and Revit(7). We ultimately chose AC because:

1) AC had over 4x the market history as Revit, and there was simply more information available: third party applications, object libraries, tutorials, external support systems and publications.

2) Interoperability

3) Teamwork

4) The Lightworks rendering engine

5) We felt AC far more flexible, without Revit's "enforced associations between elements" and automatic updating

6) Not having to deal with AutoDesk

7) Of lesser importance, but still considered: National CAD Standard compliance, plug-in for SketchUp and the fact that AC is cross-platform

Now, a year-and-a-half later, Revit has made significant progress (although, I'm not sure I'd want to manage a system that upgrades every 6 months), but I still feel AC superior. I believe the competition in the marketplace is doing AC (and us) much good, and eventually the two systems will be comparable. So... it really comes down to which software you're the most comfortable with...

from this thread...

Oh, ya -- and 2) a. AC worked seamlessly with DWG files, which was not the case with Revit at the time.

Re: Going back to Revit vs Archicad

Djordje — Wed, 23 Aug 2006 03:56:17 GMT

Laura wrote:
I believe there is some sort of promotion going on where if a firm upgrades their AutoCAD, they can receive Revit at a significantly reduced price...

Around here, plain AutoCAD costs more than Archicad. Revit Building (bundled AutoCAD 2007 and Revit 9) costs about 30 US$more.

I am wondering: which one is being given for free?