topic Re: Sections - what's your approach? in Modeling

Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:32:01 GMT

I'm trying to determine the best approach to adding detail to sections for a residential project. Specifically, where the foundation, floor sandwich, and wall base all come together: do you model everything with custom profiles, or do you keep things simple and fill in detail in 2D?

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Thomas Holm — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:18:54 GMT

Depends on how you use the model. The more sections you want to cut, the more benefit from a detailed model. One section, no re-use, then you might as well draw it by hand 😉

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:36:34 GMT

I have found that the more I model in 3d, the faster/more efficient my sectioning & detailing has become.

If, for example I add a subfloor slab of the proper thickness & section materials, all of my sections look the same, as do all of my details.

Visually everything looks better, and no matter where I need a detail, that part looks the same and it in the correct relationship with the other parts. Since the lion's share of my job is really structural design, it helps me troubleshoot everything that goes into a building, which of course makes me look really good to the builder. 3d makes my life easier all around!

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:14:06 GMT

How do you go about adding lineweights? For example, what about the classic convention of having darker lines where air touches the building envelope? How do you achieve this?

It seems to me that by going all 3D, you would lose a lot of these conventions that make drawings look good. Do you model a drip edge on a house? Do you add rebar to the foundation walls? I guess I'm just a little skeptical because in 2D you can make something look perfect... I think I need to see a nice 3D section. Any volunteers?

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:41:34 GMT

1. Create section with uniform pen for cut elements( heavy lineweight)
And uniform pen for uncut elements (lightest lineweight) and vectorial 3d hatching)

2. On the generated section draw over the generated element you want to stand out with intermediate lineweight lines or fills . Be sure to use a different layer for this embelishment work in case you need to erase or coordinate with the underlaying generated drawing.

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:44:08 GMT

Ok, so you use the model but also 2D lines over the model to get it to look right? I was thinking everything is done in 3D.

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:39:40 GMT

What about the 2x top, bottom & sill plates, & rim joist?

One way would be to create a custom profile for the foundation, which would include the concrete (w/ rebar) the sill plate (w/ anchor bolt) sill plate & rim joist and apply it. You could easily update it as you get structural info (fnd'n dimensions etc.) I suppose you could even include a sole plate in the profile.

You could do the same sort of thing at roofs & intermediate floors - profile that would include rim, sole & top plates. Is this workable?

jocontreras wrote:
1. Create section with uniform pen for cut elements( heavy lineweight)
And uniform pen for uncut elements (lightest lineweight) and vectorial 3d hatching)

2. On the generated section draw over the generated element you want to stand out with intermediate lineweight lines or fills . Be sure to use a different layer for this embelishment work in case you need to erase or coordinate with the underlaying generated drawing.

Too bad that Archicad can't do that automatically.

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:34:41 GMT

I am always in the process of developing my 3d modeling, and I like the idea of creating custom profiles, especially if more of my work was on projects that were alike. Unfortunately I can't justify the time to do that for each project and I end up detailing the sections and details using the Detailer Library for plates, rebar, bolts, etc.

We don't follow all of the normal conventions, but here's a section built with 3d slabs, walls, roofs, joists, and rafters (I love the Roof Wizard), then detailed out in 2d. Again, my focus is on solving any problems the builder may run into, but I love a pretty detail as much as the next guy.

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:49:34 GMT

Looks good, but I don't know if the graphics would "fly" with the computer illiterate principals here...

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:00:35 GMT

Do you have a sample of what does fly?

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:18:23 GMT

Here's one...

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:28:18 GMT

Steven wrote:
Looks good, but I don't know if the graphics would "fly" with the computer illiterate principals here...

hi steven could you explain computer illiterate principles please

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:38:23 GMT

Sorry, I think I used the wrong word, I mean "principals". The two architects here don't know quite what ArchiCAD can do; they do not use the computer much and do not use ArchiCAD at all. So, they stick to the graphic standards they were taught in school and expect that in the drawings we produce.

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:40:00 GMT

No, I guess I used the right word...

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:42:24 GMT

Can anyone get a 3D section to look like the one I have attached without taking a year to make complex profiles like that? The problem with that house too is that it's quite large and the eave, roof, foundation, and floor details change 3 or 4 times throughout the house. This would take a bunch of profiles, correct?

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:42:50 GMT

ok mate got ya. cheers.

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:10:19 GMT

Steven wrote:
Here's one...

How did you draw that batt insulation?

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Erich — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:29:52 GMT

I don't know what Steven uses, but Olivier Dentan wrote a wonderful insulation object that is easy to use and very flexible. Take a look here:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/archilib.od/

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:01:10 GMT

As I teach VB at an architecture university for 5 years now, the problem of not being able to extract perfect looking drawings from the model has been discussed many times, with students and colleges.

I also design, so I totally understand the need to communicate clearly ones intends, and also the price of poorly coordinated drawings

Here are my 5 cents:

- Drawing is more flexible than modeling, so there is always stuff that takes much more work to represent correctly on the model than in a flat cad drawing.

- You can model practically everything to obtain "perfect" drawings, but the longer it takes to do the more money you loose.

- For the same amount of effort, 2d drawings are probably better looking than 2d from a model.

But:

The clarity of drawings you may loose from doing a 100%model derived drawing is largely compensated by the coordination and correctness you get from it.

So, if the choice is between pretty drawings that are based on paper and pen conventions from last century or correct drawings, I think this is a no brainer.

As long as the constructor understands our intend, you should not go any further in trying to perfect the looks of your drawings, especially if this will rob work hours from the job you where given: designing.

James Murray explains this much better, as usual: http://www.onland.info/archives/2006/03/beauty_is_third.php

Re: Sections - what's your approach?

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:47:12 GMT

svenl wrote:
Steven wrote:
Here's one...
How did you draw that batt insulation?

That is the insulation symbol that comes with ArchiCAD. Use the object tool, go under Object library" - "General" - "Thermal & moisture protection" - "Thermal Protection" then click on the "Insul fib" part. You can stretch it, rotate it, change lineweights, etc.