topic Re: Complex Roof being a jerk in Modeling

Complex Roof being a jerk

JaredBanks — Tue, 23 May 2023 12:48:39 GMT

I've having an issue with the complex roof in ArchiCAD 15. When I try to make the last hip a gable (See image attached), ArchiCAD politely deletes one of the roof planes. Anyone have any thoughts?

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

JaredBanks — Tue, 09 Aug 2011 19:23:38 GMT

And when I make the last hip a gable. What the huh? For now I can make a work around that cuts this into 2 complex roofs. But it'd be cooler to just have 1 object. Which I thought was the whole point.

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

JaredBanks — Tue, 09 Aug 2011 19:38:00 GMT

At first when I was playing with the complex roof, I was very impressed. It was easy to use, intuitive, and very slick. Now the more I delve into it to solve this roof, the more annoyed I get. I can get the roof to work, if I put a whole in the vanishing roof plane (before it vanishes of course). I have no idea how to get the missing plane back. I've rebuilt the roof multiple times, tried from different points. I can make a very crazy roof that works. But not this one. Okay I'm ready to be proven wrong here.

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

Barry Kelly — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 02:20:37 GMT

I don't have a solution for your problem apart from converting to single roof planes and editing as in version 14 and before.

But I can see why it is happening.
An extra node is created on the hip in an extention to the ridge off to the side.
This node can not be moved or altered in any way.

As soon as you try to move the node for the hip end past this extra node your problem will appear.
Choosing the gable option for the end is the same as manually dragging the node to form the gable.

I noticed too that other eave overhang distances are affected as well as the roof plane disappearing.

Barry.

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 02:24:30 GMT

seems to be working ok (at least if i'm understanding it properly);

could it be a problem with the geometry of the pitching lines that's causing the ridges/valleys to not meet exactly and causing that plane to become corrupted?

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

Barry Kelly — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 02:57:36 GMT

Kombibob,
Does your roof have the extra node on the ridge?
I'd be guessing not - therefore no problem.
It probably is the geometry of the pitching lines (eaves overhang) that cause this extra node to appear or not.

Just playing quickly before if I had a rectangular roof and then manually added nodes and stretched a bit out the side all was fine - no extra node.
As soon as I did the same on the opposite side the extra node appeared.
So obviously the geometry of what you model will affect this extra node.
I haven't played with it enough to work out what causes it of if there is a way to model without getting it.

Barry.

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

Stephen Dolbee — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:49:45 GMT

After watching the demo's of complex roofs in AC15 I was really excited. After using it for a couple of weeks I have gone back to the old way (one roof plane at a time). This is disappointing.

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

JaredBanks — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 14:04:59 GMT

kombibob,

How did you do that? Like Barry mentioned, I noticed that extra node (and it's evilness) and was maddened that I couldn't get ride of it or do anything about it. What did you do to not get that node? I tried using the magic wand to create the roof from an outline and also build it up bit by bit. No luck.

Additionally I found further issues with the complex roof. See the attached image. I couldn't figure out a way to make the gable extensions. I guess for now I'll stick with separate roof planes. Just annoying, not the end of the world...

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

David Maudlin — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:21:30 GMT

Jared:

I think there is an issue with how ArchiCAD tries to alter the roof when the problematic hip roof is changed to gable. In my illustration below, you can see ArchiCAD trying to connect two of the roof planes as the hip roof is modified. I am getting the same result as you when changing the hip to gable. This is a clear bug and should be reported to Graphisoft. If it was me, I would try dividing the entire roof into two or more elements (rather than going back to single plane roofs) and combining them with the Connect command, so the single element geometry is less complex, I think this will also help with the gable extensions (covered in my next post).

David

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

David Maudlin — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:28:04 GMT

JaredBanks wrote:
Additionally I found further issues with the complex roof. See the attached image. I couldn't figure out a way to make the gable extensions. I guess for now I'll stick with separate roof planes. Just annoying, not the end of the world...

I was able to add the gable extensions to a simpler roof element by editing the roof perimeter (not the pivot line). When I did this to your original roof, again the geometry of other parts of the roof got messed up, so another reason to go with combining (Connect) multiple roof elements.

David

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

JaredBanks — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 20:50:39 GMT

David,

Great images. Thanks. That makes it very clear. I'll have to report this bug and another I found regarding roofs (keyboard shortcuts not working on the pet palettes associated with the roof tool).

I already broke the roof into pieces, but I can see that I should have kept as much as complex roof forms as possible. Good to know the gable extension will work.

thanks,

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 01:52:56 GMT

Barry, Jared,

i'm not sure what i did at first to get it to work;

i didn't save the file, so i tried to do it again and at first couldn't replicate it. tried a few options (e.g. direction of drawing polygon, cw vs. ccw, drawing a line path and space-clicking it etc.) one of these options worked but i can't really pin down what fixed it.

see image showing a successful (blue) and unsuccessful (red) options before (below) and after (above) gable conversion (and it seems just that one plane that is the problem. i can't see any difference in the general setout (both have that extraneous, unadjustable node). The original roofs are not exactly the same in terms of base polygon(pitching line) setout, so it could be a glitch in the geometry setout, but i'll say its a bug too.

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

Barry Kelly — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 03:43:54 GMT

It is definitely a geometry problem and I don't think we will ever work out what it is.
Depending on what you have done to your roof will affect whether further changes will work or not.
See the attached image for just one explaination.

If the two lower extensions are exactly the same size then there is no problem.
Not having either one of the extensions to the side and there is no problem either.
Having unequal extension and a gable at the top then there is a problem.
Doesn't matter if you add the gable first or stretch the side extension you just can't do both.

And I am guessing a similar thing on a different shaped roof might be fine.
I think it is going to be a bit of trial and error.

And as Jared suggested breaking the roof into sections (still multi-plane roofs) and connecting them seems to work as well.

Barry.

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 00:44:07 GMT

I have just come across this problem also. What seems to work is selecting the roof and rotating at a random angle, it fixes its self then rotate it back and all should be well.

I have noticed that when you add more geometry to the roof element it (just in general) it will add a node to the ridge in line with the ridge of the added geometry.

However!!!

After the rogue roof plane decides to go on holiday, and after my rotation solution, all nodes that *should* correspond with the added geometries are returned....*BUT* they're are either not in line with the added geometry ridges, they're "shifted" along the ridge, or not on the ridge at all.

I shall investigate further.

Re: Complex Roof being a jerk

JaredBanks — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:15:00 GMT

Shingleback,

Great problem solving! It's been forever since I opened that file, but since I have a backup from the day of the trouble, I'll go back and see if your solution works. I assume it will.