topic Re: Advanced modeling help? in Modeling

Advanced modeling help?

Sloan Springer — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:05:46 GMT

As I further my experience and knowledge in ArchiCAD, Ive come to a point where I am seeing things modeled in AC that I have no clue how to efficiently model...here are 2 examples from Michel Rojkind and Dave Chisholm. I expect that GDL is the way to go (the latter even says so about his project), but I have no idea how to do something like this in GDL (much less anything at all!)

Any ideas on how to approach this and what to do, as this is the kind of work I would like to do with ArchiCAD..

Thanks so much!

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Sloan Springer — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:06:35 GMT

Dave Chisholm

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Steve Jepson — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:01:38 GMT

image #1.

Step #1: Hire me to model it for you while you go out and play golf.

Before you can model anything you must decide why you are modeling it.
Will it bust be something you use to generate images or will the model be for generating working drawings?

If you need to make a model for use with the wroking drawings then ArchiCAD is the best tool for this or any project.

If you just want to use ArchiCAD as a modeling tool, there are many other programs that could do it better.

Before I tell you the simple secrets of how to do this, ( no GDL scripting will be needed ) tell me what sort of model you want to make?

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Sloan Springer — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:16:13 GMT

No working drawings needed, just presentation stuff. I am a M.Arch student, so its all conceptual work. Ive been using AC for a few years now, and absolutely love it, therefore I would prefer to model in it as much as possible, until I start getting into things that are much easier in other apps (Ive been learning Rhino for a few weeks, and its certainly something I want to further develop, but for now my heart is with AC.)

My current workflow is to model in AC, use that for presentation drawings (via Illustrator), then export the model to Artlantis for rendering. You can see my undergrad work on my website (the more advanced stuff is farther down on the list under the architecture projects.

Like I said, Ive been experimenting with Rhino, but Im just not even close to being as capable in it as I am in AC. Also, a huge factor for me trying to stay with AC is this forum...I love being able to ask questions and actually have people who know what theyre talking about trying to help me solve things. Rhino just doesnt seem to have that yet.

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:59:53 GMT

I had a go at modelling the first one a while a go - http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=99714

It was pretty crude, and lacked the way the building subtly twists and distorts as it increases in height. It was, however, made completely in ArchiCAD!

The second one could be replicated by arraying lots of columns at slightly different angles. Set up some sloping roofs and SEO the top and bottom ends to the same lines (It would be very time consuming to manually adjust each and every one). If you then selected all the columns and saved it as a library part it 'should' still remember the SEO, and you could then add some GDL code to make it storey and cutplane sensitive, as I did to the first building.

Post up some images if you get anywhere!

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Steve Jepson — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:51:27 GMT

this one is kind of cool too.

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Sloan Springer — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:17:42 GMT

OK I did a quick mock up with a combination of things suggested.

Essentially I modeled the wall in plan then saved it as an object from the front view so it goes in in plan.

I made a mesh to act as the wall, then made the cutouts as slabs. I converted the mesh to a roof, the SEOed the cutouts and hid them.

Im still not completely sure how I would do this to create a building envelope that all sides would line up, but this is a start I guess...

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Sloan Springer — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:19:59 GMT

Steve wrote:
this one is kind of cool too.

BIG, on of my favorite firms...

On this one, I think I can now figure out how to make the side walls, but how about the roof with the holes that are perpendicular to the curve?

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Steve Jepson — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:20:57 GMT

You could try making a mass modle of your building and then clad it with the parts. In section, rotate to the parts to fit the mass model.

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Sloan Springer — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:33:30 GMT

Ah...I just figured out you can rotate cylinder objects in section...that helps alot! Im also going to try out the student version of OBJECTIVE, maybe that will round things out....

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Steve Jepson — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:37:30 GMT

also rember that you can make a part, use a temporary SEO object to sculpt it, make the SEO object invisible and then save the sculpted part as a new object.

You can build any part you need this way. No GDL scripting at all.

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Sloan Springer — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:45:41 GMT

I love it! And here I was under the impression I had to learn scripting to expand my skills in AC...
If I can figure out a way to rotate meshes to vertical then im really gunna go to town...

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Steve Jepson — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:59:02 GMT

now check out the automatic gdl scripting that was generated from one of your parts. GDL scripting is for computer programers. But having a little knowledge about it very useful too.

A few more modeling tips and you will see that there is no such thing as Advanced Modeling. It's all very simple.

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Sloan Springer — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:32:39 GMT

What do you think would be the best way to model the first image? Is there any less time consuming way that just making tons of different columns?

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 05:47:51 GMT

Sloan wrote:
What do you think would be the best way to model the first image? Is there any less time consuming way that just making tons of different columns?

I think it has 4 straight sides (Planes), you can model it with walls and then save it as a rotated GDL object.

Re: Advanced modeling help?

TMA_80 — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:30:50 GMT

while "possible".... when it comes to this freeform "parametric" shapes, archicad is not the best bet for flexible "conceptual" modeling...

have a look here:
http://designreform.net/2008/04/12/hexagons-with-classic-mesh-smooth/

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Steve Jepson — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:26:17 GMT

Sloan wrote:
Steve wrote:
this one is kind of cool too.
BIG, on of my favorite firms...

On this one, I think I can now figure out how to make the side walls, but how about the roof with the holes that are perpendicular to the curve?

You can make holes perpendicular to the curved roof.

start by using a rotated view of the roof. what you want to see in a plan view is the edge of the roof as it would look in elevation.

Now it's easy to locate a tube or what every you want to use as the SEO "Operators" .

The first one in a pattern can be placed perpendicular to the curve of the roof. You will get the indicator when the object is tangent or perpendicular to the curve. The rest of them can be rotated around the curve using the Multiply/Rotate too. Change the diameter and elevation of the tube as needed for the other holes.

You will need to do some checking in sections and 3d views to make sure all of your SEO operators are in the right place.

When they are, draw a temporary slab next to your roof an SEO operators. View in 3d, using the Look to Perpendicular tool,
click on the surface of the temp slab that gives you a true top view.

Execute the SEO, turn off the SEO layer, save you roof as a new library part. Very simple. Same old trick you can use to make what ever you need.

You could make that roof as a wall and use round windows.
Then save a rotated view of it as a library part.
Possibly even use round skylights and a roof.

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:50:02 GMT

Sloan wrote:
Steve wrote:
this one is kind of cool too.
On this one, I think I can now figure out how to make the side walls, but how about the roof with the holes that are perpendicular to the curve?

Use complex profiles for modeling as a wall, make a simple wallhole window that will punch a hole perpendicularly.

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Ralph Wessel — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:25:32 GMT

Sloan wrote:
how about the roof with the holes that are perpendicular to the curve?
Is there any less time consuming way that just making tons of different columns?

You mentioned OBJECTiVE in an earlier post - I think it will help you a lot modelling this. I've attached a few example images to illustrate, but that's just the tip of the iceberg.

1) You can draw your roof in plan (complete with openings), create a profiled object with it, and bend it to the curve of the roof.
2) The object displays correctly in plan, even if rotated and cut in 3D
3) In section, you can see the holes remain perpendicular to the curve
4) You can also do lots of bendy, twisty things to columns (custom or regular profiles), and these can also be freely cut and rotated in 3D.

More info here. Just ask if you need more guidance.

Re: Advanced modeling help?

Sloan Springer — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:36:32 GMT

I cant seem to figure out how to make OBJECTIVE work...I made an object by cutting holes in a slab, viewing it from the right in parallel projection, then saved it as a gsm object. But, OBJECTIVE says it wont work with objects that dont have a constant cross section. Is there a different way I have to go about it?

Im trying to do something along the lines of what you posted in the last image, with a sort of thickened net where i can move around each node...