topic Re: ac10 walls in Modeling

ac10 walls

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:42:06 GMT

walls in ac10:
home storey of wall starts at level 0.00 and ends at +2.50
wall base is at -0.05 and wall top is at +5.00.
when I select "show on / link to storey" - "own storey only" instead of the default "automatic" value the wall dissapears from the plan view. 3D is ok.

what should I do? I think I tried all the combinations with "floor plan display" and "projection" but the result is the same.

__________
ac10 int | win xp sp2

Re: ac10 walls

Thomas Holm — Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:08:17 GMT

Have you checked the story below? The "automatic" setting means that AC determines the wall's home story based on the base level. Your setting will make the story below its home story, thus it should remain visible there, at least if you firts change the display setting to "Symbolic cut"

Re: ac10 walls

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:30:34 GMT

the automatic setting is working fine.
the problem is with the home storey option that should show the wall only on the storey on wich it was created. instead it disappears. it is true that the wall has the base below the home storey and the top above it, but this is a necessity in this case.
this setting should allow the wall to behave like in previous versions.
am i missing something or in's a bug?

Re: ac10 walls

TomWaltz — Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:46:01 GMT

I could be wrong, but I think even with the "home story" setting, the Home Story is the story that contains the walls base line, even if it is drawn while another story is open.

Re: ac10 walls

James Murray — Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:54:17 GMT

zucoc wrote:
should show the wall only on the storey on wich it was created

It really should, but...

it is true that the wall has the base below the home storey and the top above it, but this is a necessity in this case.

Aha. A wall set to 'automatic' has no home story. Strange but true. If you switch a wall from 'automatic' to 'own story only', it has to choose a home story, and to do this it uses the elevation of the base. It doesn't remember the story that it was created on. This can cause the wall to vanish from the current story and appear below in your case.

My policy is to use 'own story' as default for this exact reason. Only use automatic as needed.

Draw the wall with 'own story', and then leave it alone.

HTH,

Re: ac10 walls

Pete — Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:10:51 GMT

It does seem to lose it's reference. I just tried to change the height of a window on story 1 where the wall extends from story -1. The window dialog would not reference story 1 anymore. It only referenced story2. The wall does not extend into story 2 so the window would not behave.

Odd.

Re: ac10 walls

Link — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:51:37 GMT

Hi

I have been investigating this topic and I think the confusion is two-fold:

1. The difference between creating a new wall and editing an existing wall.
2. The difference between using the 'Automatic' and 'Own Story Only' settings for single-story walls and multi-story walls.

1. The thing to note is that when creating a wall the 'Show On/Link to Stories' setting appears as 'Current Story Only' (if it's not set to 'Automatic'). When editing an existing wall, this setting appears as 'Own Story Only'.

If we create a wall with the 'Current Story Only' setting, it will only show on the current story regardless of it's elevation. If we edit that wall and change it to 'Automatic' and then to 'Own Story Only' it will go from the current story to it's own story. According to GS terminology that story is based on 'the current vertical position of its reference line', which for a wall is located at it's base. This is probably best demonstrated by trying to model a wall on an upper story, whose base elevation is on a lower story, because if the vertical position of the wall's base does not lie within the current story, a pop-up warning may appear (if it hasn't been disabled) telling us the wall will appear on an unseen story.

I emphasize may because it then depends on the type of wall you are dealing with - a single story wall or a multi-story wall.

2. If we create a single-story wall using 'Current Story only' it will appear only on that story (even if the wall has a base elevation that is not on the current story). This is the default behavior in ArchiCAD 9 and earlier, so one might be inclined to use this setting for typical single-story walls and ease the transition into AC10. Incidentally, if we later change it to Automatic, it will move to it's correct story, based on the vertical position of the reference line, which we now know is the wall base. Again a pop-up warning may appear telling us the wall will appear on an unseen story.

However if we create a multi-story wall using 'Current story only' it will only show on that story. This may not be desirable since it won't show up on any other story it enters. But if we create a multi-story wall using 'Automatic' it will do two things: Firstly it will go to the correct story the instant it is created, again based on the vertical position of the reference line - the wall base. And if no part of it is seen on the current story, the pop-up warning will again appear telling us the wall will appear on an unseen story. Secondly it will appear on any other story that it enters. Now that depends on the 'Floor Plan Display' settings for that wall and the cut plane height of each story, but that's another story (pardon the pun) and potentially takes the confusion to three-fold or four-fold!

FWIW it's my opinion that the most logical default wall setting for AC10 is to set all walls to Automatic. This is the default setting for walls in the standard Graphisoft templates. It's not as easy to get used to, but if you want to 'dive right in' to AC10's new features, it'll take a while to adjust, but I think it'll be worth it. My reasoning is because if the Current Story Only setting is used, it is too easy to put walls on the wrong story. Sure this was handy in AC9 sometimes, but not so much now because of the new multi-story walls in AC10. Also because all walls will go to the correct story the instant they are created and multi-story walls will show on every story they enter. It's also consistent with creating walls in 3D.

There'll always be times when we need to set certain walls differently, but unless I receive information suggesting otherwise, I will be recommending Automatic as the way to go for general modeling.

Just my 2 cents...

Cheers,
Link.

Re: ac10 walls

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:15:26 GMT

Link wrote:
Just my 2 cents...

Gotta be worth at least 10cents, surely.

Re: ac10 walls

__archiben — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:13:19 GMT

Link wrote:
I will be recommending Automatic as the way to go for general modeling.

. . . and now for your next challenge . . . if you're up to it

work out the best method for displaying roofs. to auto or not to auto. particularly when using accessory tools to clad them with and they're pitching at about 6º through the top of storey 1 and the bottom of storey 2 . . . . ( )

your time starts . . . now...

~/archiben

Re: ac10 walls

Link — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:25:39 GMT

Ben said:

work out the best method for displaying roofs. to auto or not to auto. particularly when using accessory tools to clad them with and they're pitching at about 6º through the top of storey 1 and the bottom of storey 2 . . . . ( )

Sorry mate - I was fishing down at the river fishing, trying to catch dinner (lucky we have tinned tuna in the cupboard).

But for the Roof tool.... It has a Custom setting instead of Automatic. Takes care of all that stuff. Love that consistency...

Cheers,
Link.

Re: ac10 walls

__archiben — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:01:36 GMT

Link wrote:
But for the Roof tool.... It has a Custom setting instead of Automatic. Takes care of all that stuff. Love that consistency...

right. have you tried it with the accessories whilst the roof is set to auto . . ?

try find those accessories elements again and get them to display . . .

whatd'ya catch?

~/archiben

Re: ac10 walls

Link — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:40:18 GMT

Ben said:

right. have you tried it with the accessories whilst the roof is set to auto . . ?

try find those accessories elements again and get them to display . . .

No problem here mate - not at first glance, you may have to be more specific.

whatd'ya catch?

Tuna...

Cheers,
Link.

Re: ac10 walls

Jefferson — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:34:02 GMT

Tuna...

And I've seen him with a can opener!

But where were we.........Automatic vs. own story. Link, I think you're on the money with your advice. I've for ever been "working-around" trying to get walls to display throughout the range of there actual modeled space and now that the functionality is there, I feel it's up to me to "adjust + adapt" to the new work method. OK, handle it. This is wiothout mentioning the bad behavior of walls only displayed on the creation story, that just won't get it, for my purposes anyway.

Where it just goes over the top is loading on the floor plan cut range. I have found it overly complex for all the time use, until.........YOU, or someone of equal acumen comes up with a cheat sheet for general drafting usage. HINT!, HINT!............ There will undoubtedly instances upon instances when I want to get "tricky/fancy" with what I can do/display, from one story to another, [The manual actually has an excellent, [an oxymoron?], example of a curtain wall displayed by changing settings for different elements.] But in my simple residential design world I think for the most part, I'm going to be shying away from the floor cut plane settings beyond 0, at least until I need it.

A compromise between old school and new school, for now, for me, it's going to be about progression, building one function on another rather than all at once. Taking what I need and setting aside the uneeded. We'll know more later.....

Re: ac10 walls

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:09:08 GMT

Link wrote:
FWIW it's my opinion that the most logical default wall setting for AC10 is to set all walls to Automatic.

Cheers,
Link.

Thank for the Recommendation, although I am not "sold" on AC10 yet. (No OLE)

So for the original question, should "zucoc" create the a Multi-story wall on what he/she calls the Home story and make that wall automatic?

Re: ac10 walls

Stephen Dolbee — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:59:08 GMT

I have had so many problems with walls set to automatic that I am going to keep them all at "own story only", unless absolutely necessary. If "automatic" walls are changed to "own story only" they should stay on the story on which they were created! It's driving me crazy!

Steve

Re: ac10 walls

Link — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:03:20 GMT

Jay said:

So for the original question, should "zucoc" create the a Multi-story wall on what he/she calls the Home story and make that wall automatic?

Hard to know without more information. It depends on which story/stories they want it to show on - it sounds like it may be a non-general case. The beauty of Automatic is that it will show on all stories it enters (depending on the Floor Plan Display settings). Now, if they didn't have a story below it would have to show on the current story.

Steve said:

If "automatic" walls are changed to "own story only" they should stay on the story on which they were created!

That's what we have to get our head around - current story and own story are two different things. And as I said creating new walls and editing existing walls are two different things. I was simply recommending creating new walls set to Automatic for general use.

To each their own...

Cheers,
Link.

Re: ac10 walls

__archiben — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:11:35 GMT

Link wrote:
Steve said:
If "automatic" walls are changed to "own story only" they should stay on the story on which they were created!
That's what we have to get our head around - current story and own story are two different things. And as I said creating new walls and editing existing walls are two different things.

what's needed is a graphically editable 'reference line vertical offset' from wall base. or 'wall base vertical offset' from reference line . . .

~/archiben

Re: ac10 walls

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:17:40 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
what's needed is a graphically editable 'reference line vertical offset' from wall base. or 'wall base vertical offset' from reference line . . .

~/archiben

Sound good at first glance, but does'nt this just "muddy up the waters" further. In other words, is the current AC 10 way already broken? I must confess am am waiting for a slowdown period in work- load to actually "dive" in to AC10. Still waiting for an OLE Add-on to AC10.

Re: ac10 walls

Link — Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:46:38 GMT

Looks like another reason to default to Automatic:

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=11302&highlight=

Cheers,
Link.

Re: ac10 walls

Anonymous — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:19:58 GMT

I am trying to work out the best way to use Multi-storey walls for a current project, advice would be appreciated.

Performing Arts Centre:-
Existing building:
- basement / storage under existing stage (-1520mm)
- ground floor Auditorium (elevation 0mm) with tiered seating and raised stage (+1220mm)
- first floor (elevation 2900mm top of seating) with Control Room and access to seating
New building adjacent:
- Basement / storage under stage as for existing
- Flat floor hall with raised stage
- Backstage and practice rooms at stage level
- Plant at approx first floor level of existing
- Classrooms, toilet facilities, foyer at Ground Floor level

New building perimeter walls also extend as sloping parapets (currently using hidden roof planes as SEO's)

Existing Auditorium is also being made taller.

I currently have storeys set up at Basement (-1520), Ground floor (0) and First Floor (+2900) levels. Stage is shown on Ground floor plan with walls base at +1220 level.

It seems if I change walls to Automatic the doors and windows are still showing on the First Floor plan (which they should not) even if I change the floor plan cut plane level. (Is the FPCP a fixed figure for the whole project or can it be different for different floors / views?)

I have spent a while trying to get my head around this, and seem to be getting more and more confused.

BTW, this has been converted from AC9, so walls are currently set to "own storey only" and "symbollic cut"

Thanks