topic Re: carpentry plans - question in Modeling

carpentry plans - question

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Jun 2013 08:52:55 GMT

hi everyone.

been using archicad for few years mainly for interior.
i wanted to find out, how people here, user of AC, do their carpentry plans.

Were not usually use AC libraries for carpentry but create our own.

the thing is that we use 2d for that - lines and fills - through detail tool.

maybe someone could send an example of how he creates these kind of drawings ? or maybe there are some drawings on the web ?

Thank you in advance,
Yoav.

Re: carpentry plans - question

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:32:42 GMT

doesnt anyone knows about this issue ? ?

Re: carpentry plans - question

David Maudlin — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:54:30 GMT

Yoavzarc:

"Carpentry Plans" will mean different things to different users. Try posting a more detailed description of what you are trying to accomplish to get a response.

You should add a Signature to your Profile (click the Profile button near the top of this page) with your ArchiCAD version and operating system (see mine for an example) for more accurate help in this forum.

David

Re: carpentry plans - question

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:10:00 GMT

I am familiar with many different practices and have never heard of "carpentry plans". Perhaps it is a translation issue?

Re: carpentry plans - question

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:28:21 GMT

perhaps.

what i mean by carpentry - were doing complete furniture plans for an apartment - complete, in 1:25 scale.

we don't usually use AC blocks but draw everything and design everything - cupboards, beds, kitchen etc.

hope i was clearer

Re: carpentry plans - question

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Jun 2013 23:31:58 GMT

So you are designing custom furnishings as part of the architectural work? The only time I recall running into this is in the work of Frank Lloyd Wright.

We would not call them carpentry anyway as that refers to the rough and finish woodwork which is indicated in the architectural drawings. For installed cabinets and specialty trim we use the terms casework and millwork drawings. For moveable furnishings we simply call them furniture plans but those are typically for specified manufactured products. Over here your plans would still be furniture plans but the elevations, sections and details would, I guess, be called joinery drawings. ...and in well over 99% of cases the actual details for fabrication would be in the fabricator's shop drawings.

Anyway...

If I were doing it I would convert the furniture models to custom library parts and then adjust the plan symbols as necessary. For later editing and revisions the original components should be retained somewhere as editing the GDL scripts can be a rather daunting task.

Re: carpentry plans - question

Steve Jepson — Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:08:04 GMT

Yoavzarc means what we would call "shop drawings" ...fabrication plans...

Yes. ArchiCAD is the ultimate tool for this kind of work. But it works better the other way around. Make the .gsm based on the shop drawings rather than making the shop drawings from the .gsm

Yoavzarc, can you show a picture of what you want the shop drawings for ?

http://www.furniturecraftplans.com/images/craft-woodworking-plans-sample1.jpg

Re: carpentry plans - question

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Jul 2013 09:02:19 GMT

Ok, sorry for the late reply.
this is what i mean - these are some sections.

when i was doing complete private houses, i used AC 3D objects alot like walls slabs etc.

now, when we do craft-carpentry works (you guys have countless names for it...) i do it using 2d lines and fills. (in detail mode so everything would be 2d)
were not using any library objects because everything is from scratch.

Is there a better way to do it ? i understand your all doing larger projects but its strange that your not that familiar with these kind of plans.

Thanks
Yoav.

Re: carpentry plans - question

Barry Kelly — Wed, 03 Jul 2013 09:36:38 GMT

You could use 3D objects for all these cabinets but they would need to be quite detailed to get accurate sections/elevations.
If you can't find suitable objects you would have to make your own.

Or you could simplify the object making by creating 2D objects that you can use in the sections/elevations.
You probably won't find many of these objects out there so you would have to make your own.

Or you could model the cabinets using walls and slabs but again you will need to be quite detailed to get accurate drawings.

Or you can do as you do now and draw it all in 2D lines.

Or you can do a combination of any or all of the above.
I have cabinet objects (custom made) that are good enough for us to get plans and elevations automatically. With a little extra 2D line work they are fine.
For sections I have 2D objects I can lay over the 3D model to give a little more detail.
But for highly detailed plans you will probably end up going down the 2D line path.

Barry.

Re: carpentry plans - question

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Jul 2013 10:42:59 GMT

i understand.

thank You barry, and everyone else (:

Re: carpentry plans - question

Jere — Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:55:35 GMT

Because you do lots of custom work, it might be better to continue modeling using 3d tools like walls, slabs, morphs, etc.

However, I think you should be able to model just about everything. Then use the interior elevation tool and add some 2d linework if required.

Re: carpentry plans - question

Steve Jepson — Wed, 03 Jul 2013 16:36:10 GMT

Yoavzarc wrote:
...but its strange that your not that familiar with these kind of plans.

Thanks
Yoav.

We are familiar with these kinds of plans, but the majority of ArchiCAD users here on ArchiCAD Talk are using ArchiCAD as Architectural Design Software not as Manufacturing Software. Architects are for the most part concerned with producing construction documents for What to build, not How to fabricate it.

In the case of Cabinet Shop Drawings we are typically satisfied to design the layout, and are finished with it using a note that says "See Cabinet Drawings by Others". Your are the "others".

There are several reasons for this.

It may be a waste of time to detail the joinery, door profiles, etc... when it will all be fabricated with CNC machines that need a specialized or even proprietary software files to run.

The majority of casework is prefabricated. We may add the manufactures number for the cabinet box, but the manufacture has no interest in some architects idea about how the cabinet should be put together. The fabrication plans need to be specifically for the equipment and computers used in the specific shop where it is being made.

Even small low tech Custom Cabinet shops have certain standard fabrication processes, specialized saws, jigs, and methods for the sake of efficiency. We rarely know what shop will be making the cabinets, let alone how to make useful shop drawings for their process and equipment.

Architects don't want to be bogged down with cabinet shop drawings. If you choose to make them, even if using typical prefabricated cabinets you will be stuck for days trying to help the client decide which side of the drawer the spoons go on, where they will put cookie sheets, etc... we have a building to make plans for.

ArchiCAD is a great tool for fabrication plans, it's just that very few ArchiCAD users here are using it the way you are asking about.

If all of my work was making cabinet fabrication plans I might choose one a manufacturing software program like this one.

http://www.2020technologies.com/en-us/manufacturing/2020-shopware/

Both of these carpenters need Architect shop drawings like another hole in the head.

Re: carpentry plans - question

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 06:34:35 GMT

Hey Steve.

I am an architect, but currently doing interior of houses, apartments etc.

I agree that this might be a 'dirty' job, detailing everything, but me and my partner are more then willing to do so, as the results give us, and the clients, a perfect, not prefab or similar-to-other results.

But i understand what You mean.

Yoav.

Re: carpentry plans - question

Achille Pavlidis — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 07:06:12 GMT

I don't think AC is a suitable software for doing what you intend to do. I mean sure, you can obtain the results you showed in your pdf, but it will be very time-consuming. I'm sure there are specialized applications for this job that will enhance your productivity with say libraries of mdf boards in the standard thicknesses and dimensions etc etc

Re: carpentry plans - question

Steve Jepson — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 07:16:22 GMT

I think I disagree with Achille.

Re: carpentry plans - question

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 16:31:37 GMT

Sorry Achille, I agree with Steve's disagreement. 😉

ArchiCAD is actually quite excellent for millwork, casework and (especially now with the morph tool) even for furniture modeling and drawings. Having been a master carpenter, cabinetmaker and furniture designer I have used ArchiCAD to model some projects in excruciating detail.

Even now I am using it to design audio speaker enclosures as a hobby. In this case I'm not doing shops but I am using the models to develop the tool path files for the CNC machines. (It is SOOOOOO cool not having to make templates and not having to hold the router.) Admittedly I have only modeled the drivers for size and looks but the enclosures are exact except that the morph tool seems unable to do a fillet less than 1 mm.

Yoavzarc,

Your screenshot looks like what we would call casework drawings. They are clearly more detailed than is typical but they are not what we would consider shop drawings. For that they would have to include a lot more detail and specification.

When you are specifying custom built casework I can understand the importance of delineating to the extent you do. I hope you are being well compensated for all the work this entails.