topic Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ? in Modeling

how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 04:45:25 GMT

i am trying to use the curtain wall tool to create sphere form building, for example, the national grand theatre beijing.

however, i can't use any method to create this building shape in ArchiCAD.

i realized that AC can't slant a polylined curtain wall.

so do you have any alternative to do so?

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Dwight — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:22:45 GMT

If the curtain wall tool can't do it, make it from a circular array of individual complex profile wall ribs for the mullion verticals and an interstitial array of muntin/glazing complex profile wall parts.

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Thomas Holm — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:06:58 GMT

So impressive, and yet so simple to do! Thanks Dwight!

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Dwight — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:21:12 GMT

Of course there are some tricks to making this work quickly that i know so that whole thing including the artlantis rendering took less than 10 minutes.

In making the fill for the mullions, draw the shape in the floor plan window with an arc or spline and magic wand a wall to it that is the depth of the mullion. Make the wall have a fill. Explode the wall and you have a sinuous fill of equal width. Copy the fill into the complex profile window.

For the next profile - the glazing and muntin, return to the floor plan, undo the explosion and change the wall thickness to the glazing thickness. Explode this and copy the skinny fill into a new complex profile window for a glass profile that follows the mullion. Of course, this makes impossibly curved glass but who cares since it is a fantasy anyways. So if it need to be real, magic wand the spline in the floor plan with the magic wand set to fixed intervals for flat glazing segments that follow the shape.

Viola. The one from Twelfth Night, not the stringed instrument.

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:30:11 GMT

Dwight wrote:
If the curtain wall tool can't do it, make it from a circular array of individual complex profile wall ribs for the mullion verticals and an interstitial array of muntin/glazing complex profile wall parts.

seems nice idea,

but i still don't really know the exact procedure

can any one elaborate to me?

thx.

if for real project, in floor plan, can it be shown in each floor plan?

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Dwight — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:37:37 GMT

You have the whole answer in my last two postings. But you now need to look at the reference manual as to how to make a complex profile.

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Thomas Holm — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:45:34 GMT

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Dwight — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:05:09 GMT

Strategy AND tricks! What more can there be?

YES< using the correct floor plan and wall element display settings, the story will cut the model correctly.

Now that i have studied detailed photos of the beijing theatre [thanks to Google Earth] I see that it is not a sphere composed of curtain wall elements, but rather row of curved, tilted panels covering an elongated lozenge.

If it is only an approximation, you should use the ellipse element in the object library. In this example, I've used two cylinders to SEO [intersection] two ellipses and inserted a third slightly lower to bridge the gap.

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Dwight — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:37:30 GMT

And if you use the ellipse to define the general form, convert it to glass and then apply the ribs as I originally described. Use a section cut to guide you. Resize ribs horizontally to match the varied form.

SO i guess by now you understand that this is not automatic as you might expect.

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:46:05 GMT

Beautiful work Dwight!

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Dwight — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:04:37 GMT

Thank you, but the real beauty is Artlantis's instant fresnel ocean shader.
Talk about your limpid pool, eh?

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:06:34 GMT

I second that - great tips, Dwight, and nice examples of Artlantis renderings!

I especially like your tip of magic wanding a wall to the spline and then exploding to get a constant thickness profile shape. Seems much easier than the alternatives.

Dwight wrote:
And if you use the ellipse to define the general form, convert it to glass and then apply the ribs as I originally described. Use a section cut to guide you. Resize ribs horizontally to match the varied form.

In the elliptical form, aren't the ribs in a quadrant unique, requiring a section cut and profile for each rib? Like, a lot of them? 10's, 100's? (Then the quadrant can be multipled circularly to fill in the other three.) Seems that resizing the ribs would distort them?

Thanks!
Karl

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Dwight — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:33:21 GMT

You are absolutely right. The poster wants an automatic parametric object and i have driven him into the modeling ditch with wacky ideas requiring much manual work.

A possible solution here is what they did to form the Sydney Opera house ribs.

You might remember that Utzon made a seductive scribble and said "ferrocement" as if it was necromancy, but by the time the naive genius's shells were to go up the crew had created a complex segmented formwork to cast the thick tapered ribs. This is the true solution to making a series of ribs with a varied length along a path.

But, depending on the actual shape of the dome, those thousands of ribs might simply be elevated and sliced off at the bottom all at once with an SEO.
Or, perhaps instead of every window mullion, we only model the larger steel framing.

I attache a related example of using a segmented arc complex profile to quickly adjust the positions and lengths of radiating dome rods while maintaining a predictable anchor point.

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:13:06 GMT

For sure its a nice example... but documentation ? is totally a different matter when using SEO and complex profiles ...

any how with the "LIVE" 3D documentation I think that we have some workarounds now....not so perfect but at least we have the tools !! to have layouts of floors.

still..thanx Dwight

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Thomas Holm — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:20:43 GMT

Dwight wrote:
I attache a related example of using a segmented arc complex profile to quickly adjust the positions and lengths of radiating dome rods while maintaining a predictable anchor point.

I see why the Artlantis guy is running away from this collapsing structure...

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Dwight — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:30:33 GMT

haha.

We public artists have to endure this kind of ridicule all the time: that the structure is too fragile to resist drunken punks or gravity. But once you actually look at wrought iron and the like, you see that it is quite sturdy.

The attached is a favorite of mine in Lincoln, Nebraska.

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Dwight — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:38:44 GMT

Absolutely true. Once you SEO an element, you really need to convert it to an object to see it properly in a real document.

But I see that the complex profiles present excellently in story cuts making multi-story structures a delight to form up.

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Thomas Holm — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:40:46 GMT

Dwight wrote:
haha.

Well, it was you who made him run... I already wrote I like your examples above. And the Nebraska thing is amazing!

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Dwight — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:50:59 GMT

Yeah, running.

Artlantis doesn't have a 3D figure of a punk holding a joint and a spray can that would make this scene photoreal.

Re: how can i create sphere curtain wall or wall ?

Thomas Holm — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:59:26 GMT

Couldn't you model that with a complex profiled wall or two? (there's no whistling emoticon)