topic Re: Upgrading to AC10 in Modeling

Upgrading to AC10

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:01:43 GMT

What feature would make you want to upgrade to AC10? For me it would be a major overhaul in the calculation interface.

Re: Upgrading to AC10

TomWaltz — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:57:38 GMT

They call it 9.1, and make it a free upgrade like 8.1 was.....

Re: Upgrading to AC10

Petros Ioannou — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:29:49 GMT

Seems like a post that belongs to the wish list , although if it was posted there I wouldn't read it.
I just came from a presentation of allpan 2005 in our city (Thessaloniki).
Nemetschek made a very strong open to our city (1,200,000 inhabitants)by sending their Eastern Europe representative.They offered to everyone a 1-month full working demo and they are really interested in establishing a network for education of their application in our city.

By looking at Allplan I realised that there is a lack of modeling tools in ArchiCAD:

Custom shape columns -beams-walls (user defined profiles)
Free stretch of every wall node in plan or elevation.
Different height for each layer of a composite wall (very Basic IMHO!)
Custom shaped doors windows
and much more....

Some of these function can be achieved with addons in ArciCAD but not all of them. And it is a big difference when you have them as a standard in a 3300€ application and not in a 4700 € .

On the other side I believe that the way Allplan handles the virtual building is very native comparing to ArchiCADs way . I talk about Navigator, Viewsets , Plotmaker, sections, details etc. This is a part of Archicad that I feel there is no need to change not just in version 10 but to version 23!

To conclude I agree with Millard regarding the calculation menu, but one needs to draw parts (or model?) and then calculate them.

Petros

Re: Upgrading to AC10

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:52:09 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
They call it 9.1, and make it a free upgrade like 8.1 was.....

That would be great if it was!

I was trying to figure out with the new Macintel alliance, what would it take to keep me from skipping the next version of archicad and waiting for the Macintel version. I'm assuming that graphisoft is on board to make the switch.
Actually, a rework of the calculation menu might not be even enough to keep me from skipping the next upgrade. However, pricing policies might.

Re: Upgrading to AC10

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:53:03 GMT

This harkens back to previous wish that archicad would have the ability to be able to open multiple views simultaneously: plans, reflected ceiling plans, section/elevations, 3d etc. All updating with each change and no rebuilding of views. Although I don't think that this means a refinement of what we are using now. It would be a major change. These changes will eventually need to be made.

Mark Gillis
architect

Gillis + Looney architects
archicad 9.0
OSX
XP

Re: Upgrading to AC10

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:41:29 GMT

I wish AC10 is a REAL upgrade. NOt like AC9.

I also wish that AC10 opens new horizons to all of us.
Not just a couple of patches.

To give an example i wish AC10 is such an upgrade as was Win95 to DOS!

Re: Upgrading to AC10

TomWaltz — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:30:02 GMT

To give an example i wish AC10 is such an upgrade as was Win95 to DOS! Smile

You thought Win95 was an improvement??? Please, let's set higher standards for GS than that!!

Re: Upgrading to AC10

James Murray — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:27:08 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
improvement?

Like NT4 to OS9.

Re: Upgrading to AC10

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 20:51:40 GMT

Millard wrote:
What feature would make you want to upgrade to AC10? For me it would be a major overhaul in the calculation interface.

A DECENT PRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE !!!!!!
This is the only thing that will make my choice to continue or not with AC.
Old rant, but i can't accept to pay MORE THAN TWICE the US price, for the same soft.

Re: Upgrading to AC10

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 23 Jul 2005 19:08:14 GMT

Olivier wrote:
Old rant, but i can't accept to pay MORE THAN TWICE the US price, for the same soft.

I continue to be amazed at the pricing differences around the world, Olivier.

I visited the MAD site in Finland yesterday to learn about some of their add-ons and noticed their ArchiCAD pricing: works out to about $8,000 US, not including VAT ... nearly $10,000 US with VAT for a single license!! Of course, the dollar has recently strengthened a little against the Euro, or else the amount would be even more in US dollars. And we pay $3,950 here, plus some small sales tax that varies by state and can be as low as zero.

I suppose the flip side of this is to invite everyone from around the world to workshops here in the US, such as the 4 day retreat in Yosemite National Park:
http://www.hightechhighnature.com/

Even with $2,000 US tuition, room, board, bus transportation plus airfare, if someone bought a US license while here, the entire trip plus intensive training still costs less than a single license in Europe!

[No, I'm not completely serious. Well, I'm serious about inviting everyone to come. But, seriously, how can someone in Europe justify a cost of Euro 8,000 (almost US $10,000) and $1,200 upgrades for a young practice or per seat in a large practice based on the widely disparate (and very low in some countries) wages there?]

Regards,
Karl

Re: Upgrading to AC10

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 09:35:55 GMT

This is my question too.
Then you might wonder why the piracy of software is so high!

Can a young architect afford to give 8000Euros for a program?
But even a small architectural company will have difficulties buying 3-4 licences.

Please GS consider a fixed pricing policy.
This would be to your benifit too.

How can one sell AC for 10000Euros when a similar competive product costs about 3000

Re: Upgrading to AC10

James Murray — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 16:53:37 GMT

Warning: I may contradict myself several times in this post.

Somewhere along the line, 'somebody' told me that the pricing difference is simply what respective markets will bear. In Germany, apparently, AC is seen as a high-end brand, and is priced accordingly. In the US, it's not, and it's priced more competitively.

I can accept this in principle. In this forum, we will hear anecdotes of being appalled at the price, but if GS didn't move units in a given market, they would have to adjust.

Assuming they're trying to compete. Which in the US they definitely are, because the US market is immense, which the Finland market isn't, relatively. In university economics we learn that if you lower the price you will sell more, but in real life it isn't so simple. Sometimes a higher price helps drive demand (iPod). Especially if you really have the best product. Is there a Finnish port of Revit? (I have no idea.) If GS has looked at Finland and concluded that they're selling AC to most of the potential customers, then to lower the price is just leaving money on the table.

The other thing somebody said is: We know we need to grow, we know it's absolutely critical. If we thought merely cutting the price would do it, it would be done.

The money goes into development, which I think most would agree is needed in the extreme. Someone has to pay.

OTOH

$10,000 is insane.

I actually believe that for proficient users with good standards, templates, etc., AC is a bargain at almost any price. An AC power user is amazingly productive.

But at 10k a seat, you need to get productive really really fast, and you probably need an understanding banker. It makes adopting AC riskier than it should be.

It is indisputably a barrier to entry for younger professionals. Yes there's a student version, but there's not a student-until-very-recently version. We need those creative insomniacs. We need their ACTalk posts, and we need the next generation to have a positive view of AC.

I also think looking at each country separately is quaint. Markets just aren't that clearly delimited anymore, and they're getting less so all the time, whether we like it or not. GS should look at global market share and try to grow across the board. The community needs every user it can get.

OTOOH

I would rather see AC grow through marketing and killer features rather than trying to compete on price. These things cost money, so we're (I'm) back at the beginning again.

Most importantly, I know next to nothing about sales of any kind, let alone the particulars of selling 20-odd localized versions of something as complicated as a 3D building modeling/documentation software, while trying to compete with a virtual monopolist (ADesk), so I'm really just weaving the wind.

Happy Sunday,

Re: Upgrading to AC10

stefan — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:36:59 GMT

oreopoulos wrote:
This is my question too.
Then you might wonder why the piracy of software is so high!

Can a young architect afford to give 8000Euros for a program?
But even a small architectural company will have difficulties buying 3-4 licences.

Please GS consider a fixed pricing policy.
This would be to your benifit too.

How can one sell AC for 10000Euros when a similar competive product costs about 3000

I paid about 6500 EURO being a young architect. It was an investment, done with a loan to get some tax advantages. I paid it in two years.
The 21% tax we pay in Belgium could be deducted, so you do not really pay that part, being a freelancer/independent worker.

Yes it was expensive and yes it's way above the US price, but not totally out of reach for me at the time.

But the price should be in balance with common income in the country.

Re: Upgrading to AC10

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 06:29:17 GMT

Different pricing policies (at such extent) is an Autodesk inheritence.
I know very few products that have so diverse pricing policies across the globe.

lets see how much AC10 will cost