topic Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13 in Modeling

Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:38:32 GMT

Well my support subscription invoice has just arrived so with the current state of the economy I had to check, Is the upgrade to version 13 worth me having.

I checked with my reseller who said the only thing he can tell me is that ArchiCAD 13 will have better team work. That would be fine if I was a large practice, but I am not. So for now ArchiCAD 12 will do just fine and I can save the money.

Unless there is a significant improvement in the tools why bother?

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:27:14 GMT

Hi Darren,

Unfortunately, anyone who knows anything about AC13 can't talk about the new features yet as it hasn't been officially announced.

There are other reasons to stay on the subscription, the main being the substantial discounts on other software like EcoDesigner, Building Explorer, C4D etc. Training courses are also discounted, if you need them.

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:07:24 GMT

Of course we will never know, but this is a fascinating thread - how does the gfc affect subscription/ upgrades etc?

Interesting times for GS, as they must continue development so that the user base has confidence in the future of the product, and so that they have a competitive product into the future.

Here in Oz we had the whole reseller distribution sold to a new party over a year or more ago. More recently a number of the 'new' people who had just introduced themselves got sacked. We don't hear much from the local guys nowadays....

Like all of us it is the time to re-evaluate the business model- make it lean - but smart. Maybe leverage the internet....

lets hope GS is up to the challenge

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Anonymous — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 05:35:59 GMT

Hi RWallis,

Things were good in Australia when Maurizio was steering the ship. Always felt confident about making the next purchase or investing my time in library development etc.

Since then, I haven't bothered with library development due to lack of feed back and whole time vs return issue hence that whole relationship died a death a few years ago.

The same could be said for paying out for upgrades. If the tools I use does what I need them to do, and there is currently no great new tools on the horizon then the cost of the upgrade vs return in productivity makes paying for a subscription pointless. I don't know about eco designer, but the virtual building explorer doesn't work on Mac so I have had to find an alternative.

It could be argued that I get support at the end of the phone, however I think I must still be one of the few who can still read a manual.

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Wokka — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:18:22 GMT

Admittedly you always knew where you stood with Maurizio and he didn't release the upgrade till it was stable.
It all went downhill when ArchiCamp became a 'thought leadership forum'. What were they thinking!!

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Wokka — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:16:30 GMT

Unfortunately I agree. All the socalled 'special addons' are r11 only and at least 2 years old and the special "arkiklub' library parts are free to most people around the world anyhow. As a small business though I don't want to get caught like some of my collegues that are still using R7 or R10 because they couldn't afford the full price to upgrade and are no stuck and it's easier to finance a few hundred bucks every now and then instead of taking a big hit every 12 months* (Well, it's suppose to be every 12 months.......)

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Laura Yanoviak — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:44:26 GMT

SKETCH3D wrote:
Well my support subscription invoice has just arrived so with the current state of the economy I had to check, Is the upgrade to version 13 worth me having.

I checked with my reseller who said the only thing he can tell me is that ArchiCAD 13 will have better team work. That would be fine if I was a large practice, but I am not. So for now ArchiCAD 12 will do just fine and I can save the money.

Unless there is a significant improvement in the tools why bother?

TW2 IS the new feature -- other "new features" are pretty mediocre -- if you do not use TW, you might want to wait for AC14.

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:26:29 GMT

Full support 64 Bit does not make me have to wait long...

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Rakela Raul — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:29:09 GMT

Improved Object Handling
Global model view options help control the display and handling of library objects at a project level. Project specific library parts can now be saved into the ArchiCAD project file itself, ensuring the complete integrity of the project now and in the future.

this seems a good improvement.....to be seen tho

I wasn't able to give solutions and big good news... I can confirm though that migration is a high priority issue for ArchiCAD development. I hope you'll see some improvement even for v14. Thank you for the feedback - there will be some serious thinking about it at GS HQ.

Regs,
Zsolt

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:20:47 GMT

Laura wrote:
TW2 IS the new feature -- other "new features" are pretty mediocre -- if you do not use TW, you might want to wait for AC14.

so i guess all of us that dont use TW paid the subscription in vain. Nothing for us!! Great. I really ask my self why i am so stupid to keep paying when GS simply makes the one blunder after the other.

If indeed the big feature is TW2, then i consider the upgrade stealling my money.

I am also pushed into paying a subscription for AC14... right now before knowing what AC13 will bring.

I hope you are not right and i have not paid for something that i really will never use.

EDIT: I just saw the new features on GS site.

A GREAT DISSAPOINTMENT
For everyone not using teamwork , this is a totall RIPOFF. So why have I paid? For rotating a view??? OK. i dont want that upgrade.. and my money back. This is EVEN WORSE than any previous upgrade. If i used TW i would be very happy ofcourse, but if this is the case, create a Networked version and charge it. Why do i have to pay and get NOTHING AT ALL.

This is a real nightmare.
So why do we solo engineers paid for? Please explain me!

Should i stop upgrading and get the product from torrents? Is this the solution? Stealing instead of being ripped of?? Is this logical??

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:51:39 GMT

I would more diplomatically call the dozen or more new features that are beyond teamwork "audience-specific".

Unlike other versions where the new features would be used by the vast majority of users - single-license or multi, these new features are ones that some users have cried for and will appreciate, but which will have no value for others.

Solo users who might do contract work for another firm - even another solo user - will find the new TeamWork a viable option for such collaboration over the internet. Small firms with just a few licenses who never tried TeamWork before because of the complication of reservations, exclusive access, etc., will find the new TeamWork so simple and flexible to use that they will find it easy to work jointly on a project to meet a deadline. So, it is not just for large firms, even though it can now easily support many users spread locally and globally.

Of course, 13 contains many bug-fixes as well, and while some here have commented that they do not feel that they should pay for bug fixes, that is life in the software world. 13 is the version that will continue to be developed and debugged.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Bricklyne Clarence — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:07:10 GMT

Laura wrote:
.......
TW2 IS the new feature -- other "new features" are pretty mediocre -- if you do not use TW, you might want to wait for AC14.

.......I remember getting a lot of flak earlier on before the release, for pointing out...... or rather, for speculating, that TW2 would be THE feature of AC13 in the same way that Curtain Wall was for AC12.

You know you're in for kind of a sorry update when the 'taglines' they are using on the product page, (and lifted from right out of these very talkback, forums, no less - sorry Owen) to promote the new release, read like:

........ wrote:
“I think this [64-bit] + TW2 would make AC13 a fantastic upgrade, regardless of any other new features.”

.......yeah, um, because there are NO other new features......of significant note anyway. I mean seriously, we can now edit the Curtain Wall in plan? Is that really a new feature, or more like a leftover completion from what should have been complete in the first place, in AC12, when they introduced the new CW tool, for the first time? But it's keeping with GS tradition anyway of half-baked new features per release to complete them in the next version (ala Complex Profiles between AC10 to AC11).

Call me a purist, but I always used to assume that new features in a new version tend to refer to features that not only never existed in the program before, but also don't really exist in competitor products as such. Now, oriented views are nice and all, until you realize that AutoCAD, yes, that Flatland 2D AUTOCAD has had this functionality for years since the early nineties in its UCS coordinate alignment system for setting up customized views. Sometimes you just get used to working in (or rather, working AROUND) the absence of a feature that should intuitively seem to be standard and you that when they eventually do release it, you're startled to find out it never existed before.

Ditto 64-Bit compatibility, which is nice and all, but when your main rival (Revit) has already had it for their last 2 versions and still handles geometry worse than you do, then I wouldn't really draw attention to the fact that it is a "new" feature. Coming in kinda late, no? In this respect, the multi-core support in version 12 was not only a great upgrade, but also a true 'new' feature in the sense that ArchiCAD was the only one of its kind in the BIM field that had (and still has) multi-core support.

ArchiCAD 13 is a great upgrade, as I mentioned (or alluded to) in that previous thread......if you're a firm that leans heavily on Teamwork, and uses a lot of Curtain Walls (read: large firms). Granted there will be those who will doubtless try to convince all the improvements like TW2 can make the lives of all of us, - not just the large firms - easier, and they are always appreciated. But it's much in the same vein the way they tried to convince us the the new CW tool in AC12, was not just an improvement that would benefit only Curtain Wall users, but one whose 'systems' technology could be used to address other more general, more common and widespread AC shortcomings like the railing systems migraine in the Stair tool (which, incidentally, I couldn't help but notice, has still "suffered" no new improvements in AC13, as far as I can tell - but which will also likely, no doubt benefit tangentially in some peripheral way or another from TW2 improvements. )

Otherwise, for small users (or small fish as someone here so eloquently and astutely put it), nothing to see here. Move on to speculating about what will not be updated or what will be left out once again in AC14 as GS chases that almighty corporate 'big fish' bling ($$$). It boggles to mind as to what was so big that they were working on that caused the 3 or 4 month delay if 'these' are indeed the new features. I feel for you small subscription users - I really do.

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:19:16 GMT

64-bit implementation available on Windows only ...but will also be available on Mac in a later version?!? of ArchiCAD...

I was hoping for this AC13 improvement for all users, anyhow, I understand GS's efforts...
It's quite disappointing GS does not even dare to mention 'next version'

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:23:17 GMT

Karl wrote:
Of course, 13 contains many bug-fixes as well, and while some here have commented that they do not feel that they should pay for bug fixes, that is life in the software world. 13 is the version that will continue to be developed and debugged.

I hardly find any feature i can use. Maybe insulations!!
But hey this is stealing. If you get the money from subscribers, you cannot do something like that. Bring a new version, that has nothing new for many of us to use but use our money to finance it!!

Ok. I want my money back. Period. If you plan only to serve a certain part of your audience, do it, but with dignity. This is STEALING and i mean every word of it.

Publish the new TW2 as an add on, and let the big guns buy it. Even make them pay to access your servers. I dont care. But what is that?

64bits?? That is for sharks too. Nothing for us. Nothing. But we paid too!!

You give me a version which has nothing new???? And i have paid one year in advance? And you do it ONE DAY AFTER the new subscription plan starts? So i have to apply for the new year (ac14 and pay) and see AFTER that the BIG FIASCO.

What does GS has to say to all us small fish? Nothing? No excuse? Nothing to say? Just thank you stupid, you should have known better?

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Dennis Lee — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:40:34 GMT

According to GS, these are the new features:

The new features of ArchiCAD 13 among others are: Next Generation Teamwork, Oriented Views, Annotated Schedule Drawings, More Flexible Setup/Display of Interactive Schedules, Expanded Listing Options Using Calculation Rules, Direct Editing of Curtain Wall Reference line, Editable Curtain Wall Height Parameter, Objects Saved into the Project, Model View Options for Library Parts, Enhanced Automatic Dimensioning Options for Doors/Windows, Symbolic Soft Insulation, Image Fill as Cover Fill, Gradient Fill Enhancements, Slab/Roof Edge Custom Settings, Improved OpenGL Display for Smooth Edges in 3D, Ruler, Dynamic „Fit in Window” Zooming when Navigating Among Views, Improved Find & Select, Boundary Contour Options for Section/Elevation/Interior Elevation, Export Multiple Layouts into Single DWG, Filter DWG Elements by Layer when Opening as ArchiCAD File, Improved Options for Saving to Custom Layers, Keep Exploded DWG Drawings on Single Layer, Standard Steel Column/Beam Profiles, Define Load-Bearing/Non-Load-Bearing Structure for Construction Elements, 64-bit Computing on Windows

Seems like there are quite a few (items in bold) that will benefit me besides TW. I'll have to see. I haven't seen the blue items mentioned in the videos, but is still welcome!

I think the subscription model works in a way that it will always have some people pi__ed. I am glad that GS at least tried to please as many customers as possible. TW2.0 seems like such a major overhaul that it could have easily been really the ONLY upgrade. IMO, the features for AC13 is far more beneficial to ALL of us than the new features that the Revit users got for their latest release.

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:35:08 GMT

Dennis wrote:
IMO, the features for AC13 is far more beneficial to ALL of us than the new features that the Revit users got for their latest release.

I dont see a single feature that an average user can use (and not average in AC knowledge). These release is pure b@&@&it if you explude TW (which single users will never use)

As for 64bit computing, its very funny . What projects do you do. Skyscapers? If yes.. then you are big fish, and this is nice for you. If not... then you dont need it.

There features for residential customers are NON EXISTENT. those 3-4 super minor features here are to make you laugh.

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:52:09 GMT

oreopoulos,

I think you have made your point and we hear your frustration. Repeating it every hour is approaching spam. Everyone should be considerate of the discussions and add only new points. (No, I'm not going to ban you. I'd just like everyone to be respectful of everyone's time, OK?)

Dennis wrote:
According to GS, these are the new features:
Seems like there are quite a few (items in bold) that will benefit me besides TW. I'll have to see. I haven't seen the blue items mentioned in the videos, but is still welcome!

We beta testers have not been released from our NDA yet, so can only comment on features publicized by Graphisoft at this point. I would like to tell you about at least one blue item that makes me happy, but cannot yet.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Karl Barker — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:53:27 GMT

For all my fellow mac users out there, shall we band together and get our discount over our PC counterparts?

ever notice that quite often a new feature comes out in archicad that is not supported on the mac platform.
quite funny really where the 64 bit gambit is for PC only, where only a very small portion of PC users have 64 bit systems whereas all snowleopard mac users are fully 64 bit.

I wonder if the sketchup thing will work with 13 on the mac.
I suspect not. This was one of the larger marketing gambits that we saw with AC12.
Still there is no VBE for mac yet. Apparently I can get a Beta version to test, but have to agree to then buy it when it is released.

It would be interesting to see the numbers of mac users verses PC users, however again as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, the big fish are pandered to more so that the small fish, big fish tend to be on PC whereas I suspect a lot of the small fish like to be a bid more design conscious and work on Mac.

Come on GS, support the little guy, we are what made you in the first place.

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:00:50 GMT

IMHO I would love to see GS pushing even harder on the big firms side !!!
Big fish implement Revit and all the small fish follow.
Big fish = market share = name reputation = transfer of knowledge = large network of structural engineers, consultants, ... etc.
This is essential for the future of ArchiCAD. I don't blame GS.

Re: Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:02:25 GMT

Karl wrote:
ever notice that quite often a new feature comes out in archicad that is not supported on the mac platform.
quite funny really where the 64 bit gambit is for PC only, where only a very small portion of PC users have 64 bit systems whereas all snowleopard mac users are fully 64 bit.

I share your frustration over the the lack of support for Mac for VBE, SketchUp add-on, Google Connectivity, etc.

The 64 bit thing is not ignored, though, and apparently did not really have to do with any preference for Windows over Mac customers but rather the effort involved in the conversion. There is a Wiki article coming out that will comment on this, although a comment here from someone from GS might be reassuring, too.

Cheers,
Karl