topic Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof? in Modeling

How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Anonymous — Tue, 23 May 2023 12:51:59 GMT

Hi,

I'm looking at design a leaf inspired roof design for a sustainable project I'm working on at Uni.

I tried using objective but I didn't get it to work as well as I had hoped (and as good as past experience...)

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Ralph Wessel — Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:57:22 GMT

NStocks wrote:
I'm looking at design a leaf inspired roof design for a sustainable project I'm working on at Uni.
I tried using objective but I didn't get it to work as well as I had hoped (and as good as past experience...)

How about the method described here?

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Anonymous — Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:06:09 GMT

Ralph wrote:
NStocks wrote:
I'm looking at design a leaf inspired roof design for a sustainable project I'm working on at Uni.
I tried using objective but I didn't get it to work as well as I had hoped (and as good as past experience...)
How about the method described here?

Brilliant, thank you!

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Dwight — Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:43:14 GMT

A leaf roof using complex profile in a curved wall with automatic wall healing to trim the excess [but this doesn't work all the time so be prepared to use a Solid Element Operation]

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Steve Jepson — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 00:04:39 GMT

What materials will the roof be made with? Concrete?

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 01:47:22 GMT

Steve wrote:
What materials will the roof be made with? Concrete?

No wood. As much as possible will be made out of wood as it's located in a forest and it must be sustainable. I will need to show this some how as well ...

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Steve Jepson — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 02:20:27 GMT

"The roof structure is made of laminated reflorestation wood (eucaliptus), capable of crossing big spans (20 metres is tle biggest here) with delicacy and warm aesthetics. The roof is covered in small reflorestation wood tiles (pinus taeda), that easily adapt to the complexes surfaces of it. It also collects rain water via the central steel column to be reused in gardening and flushing toiets. All surfaces finishes, except for glass and pre-oxidized copper are natural:" http://www.examiner.com/interior-decorating-in-san-diego/the-eco-tropical-brazilian-leaf-house

http://www.mareines-patalano.com.br/index.php#projeto&idProjeto=casafolha

Shot at 2011-02-11

Let me know if you need any help framing the roof. Or building it. I could use a trip to the tropics.

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:40:20 GMT

That would work great Steve. I've not looked into it in great detail yet but I think an ISO 'explode' view of the roof structure would be excellent to show how it's constructed and the materials 'green' credentials (its a sustainability project)

I would appreciate enlightenment on the method you used to execute this very much.

Thank You

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Steve Jepson — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:53:00 GMT

NStocks wrote:
That would work great Steve. I've not looked into it in great detail yet but I think an ISO 'explode' view of the roof structure would be excellent to show how it's constructed and the materials 'green' credentials (its a sustainability project)

I would appreciate enlightenment on the method you used to execute this very much.

Thank You

I don't know how little of an explanation you need so excuse me if I am giving too much info.

I made the curved arches by drawing it with a wall in plan view, exploded it, used the magic wand to make the fill of it a slab, view in 3d from the top, save as .gsm. This is an essential process to learn. Glulams that form the shape of the leaf are walls. Rafters are from the library( Rafter 14). Spread them out at 16" o.c., view in 3D, edit angle to fit the beam. Do this to .1 degree. It must be a good fit in order to work when you multiply, copy, and rotate. SEO is used to trim the rafters where they meet.

The curved valley beam is tricky. It will not be a uniform curve.
To make this beam, make a section exactly at the valley intersect.

Copy and paste the section view into the floor plan view so you can work on it. This will show you the exact curve you need for the valley beam.

Use the same process as before. Draw the beam with lines/archs use the magic wand to make it into a slab. View from the top in 3d and save as .gsm. When you go back to the floor plan, this new beam/object will by default be the one in the info box and you can place it like any other object. You may need to rotate it, flip it end for end, elevate, etc... to make it fit. Use section and 3d views to get it in place.

This particular valley beam is interesting. I used 3 different curves to make a very smooth fit.

In your case, you will probably not want the bottom plate of the leaf to be flat. You will want tilted leaves. To to this I would model them flat, then save the entire roof assembly as one model part and add to it a little .gdl script for tilt. roty rotx. Then do the SEO when you have the leaf parts tilted as you want it.

Just a tip. I would begin with laying out the rooms based on modules of
" ken x 1/2 ken ". Then make the roof in harmony with these units of measure. The leaves will be some ratio of ken x 1/2 ken also in length, width, and height. Find some geometric harmony for the whole thing and it will be much easier.

Take a look a the tile roof I modeled here http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=2477&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=30
The trick is to multiply with virtical displacement horizontal instead of virtical as was shown in the illustration using Objective.

Of course, there are many ways to do this and lots of tools to do it with.

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Ralph Wessel — Sun, 13 Feb 2011 03:03:04 GMT

NStocks wrote:
As much as possible will be made out of wood as it's located in a forest and it must be sustainable. I will need to show this some how as well ...

Try doing the roof framing with OBJECTiVE too - it will be far easier. Refer to the attached image. I extended the previous example I referred to, arraying it around the entire building.

The framing is all done with a single object (Regular Profile). Rather than messing around with slabs, settings views, and saving GSMs, just draw the beams straight into a cross-section through the building. Use OBJECTiVE > Tools > Bend to loft it to the curve, and OBJECTiVE > Tools > Split to cut it at junctions.

The rafters can be done the same way - just cut a section, draw or rotate the rafter directly in the section (with OBJECTiVE > Tools > Rotate), and split to cut the ends (much better than SEOs - just a single object that looks right in plan). Materials applied to the timber will look better than bits of slabs too.

OBJECTiVE's ability to bend and/or twist the timber will give you more freedom to create organic forms. You might also want to refer to the use Peacebuilding is making of OBJECTiVE developing reciprocal frame structures for countries like Haiti.

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Steve Jepson — Sun, 13 Feb 2011 06:18:50 GMT

OBJECTiVE is the coolest add-on ever.
We need it to be included with ArchiCAD.

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Anonymous — Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:11:50 GMT

Steve wrote:
OBJECTiVE is the coolest add-on ever.
We need it to be included with ArchiCAD.

Indeed.

Thanks you Ralph and Steve for your help

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:06:32 GMT

I'm trying to create the roof now, but when I use the regular profile then bend it using OBJECTiVE, nothing appears to change. Also, I I create a new profile (section) then bend it, I end up with a crazy shape For the example you posted on this thread, did you use the regular profile solely for this?

Thank You

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Ralph Wessel — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:16:18 GMT

NStocks wrote:
I'm trying to create the roof now, but when I use the regular profile then bend it using OBJECTiVE, nothing appears to change. Also, I I create a new profile (section) then bend it, I end up with a crazy shape For the example you posted on this thread, did you use the regular profile solely for this?

Yes, the entire frame is the same object (Regular Profile). You can do the same if you make profiled objects with OBJECTiVE.

Try an experiment first - just place a Regular Profile in the floor plan, select it, and click the menu OBJECTiVE > Tools > Bend. Does this work as you expect? If so, move on to a section and try it there. Note that bending can produce varying results if the plane of the section is different than the plane of the object, i.e. it will result in a combination of vertical and horizontal bending.

If you know the extent of the bending deflection, you can also enter the value directly into the vertical or horizontal bending settings (see attached image).

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Ralph Wessel — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:17:10 GMT

NStocks wrote:
I'm trying to create the roof now

Sorry - did you mean the roof cladding or framing?

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:25:00 GMT

Ralph wrote:
NStocks wrote:
I'm trying to create the roof now
Sorry - did you mean the roof cladding or framing?

The roof framing, the cladding will be added once the main structure is created., I only looked at your instructions beforehand, I now have time to try it!

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 20:16:35 GMT

Ok I've made one piece I have the vertical bend at 500, if you remember, what value did you use? Also, to create the 'pitch' to allow water to run off, did you rotate the whole profile, or was the angle altered using OBJECTiVE? Referring to the attached, the profile can't be rotated, the line underneath is the desired effect.

(First image is 3D view, second is Elevation view)

Thank You

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Ralph Wessel — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:04:45 GMT

NStocks wrote:
I have the vertical bend at 500, if you remember, what value did you use? Also, to create the 'pitch' to allow water to run off, did you rotate the whole profile, or was the angle altered using OBJECTiVE? Referring to the attached, the profile can't be rotated, the line underneath is the desired effect.

I modelled the roof shell first, and used that as a template for setting out the framing. Therefore, I placed and bent the beams visually (rather than typing in the deflection).

To place and bend the beams in elevation, refer to the attached image. First, there are two methods for getting the beam at the correct pitch and length. The first is:

1. Set the Geometry Method for the OBJECTiVE tool to Rotated Diagonal.

2. Trace the beam start and end points, and click twice on the end position.

3. The beam is in place (note that OBJECTiVE ensures that the beam becomes part of the 3D model - ArchiCAD otherwise places it as a 2D only symbol)

Alternatively, if the beam is already in the elevation:

4. Drag the start of the beam to the required start position.

5. Use the menu OBJECTiVE > Tools > Rotate to rotate the beam to the required pitch (don't use ArchiCAD's rotate - it won't work in elevation).

6. Stretch the beam to the end position.

In either case, do the following to bend the beam once it is in the correct position and pitch:

7. Select the beam, click the menu OBJECTiVE > Tools > Bend, and click somewhere along the curve you are bending to.

8. The bent beam in elevation.

9. The bent beam in 3D.

Hope this helps.

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:44:05 GMT

Ok I've had my first go at it. It's not accurate yet and it doesn't look 'right' but I'm learning

On the rafters, how did you make them join together properly? Referring to my screenshot you can see that there are large gaps... Are my angles off, which is why they don't join?

Thank You

PS Sorry for all my questions, like anything at Uni. I'm learning multiple tools/programs everyday, not that I'm excusing myself for trying!

Nathan

Re: How to design 'Leaf' Roof?

Ralph Wessel — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:31:52 GMT

NStocks wrote:
On the rafters, how did you make them join together properly? Referring to my screenshot you can see that there are large gaps... Are my angles off, which is why they don't join?

That's a bigger question than you realise - the way to fit objects together depends very much one the setout, construction, and form of the roof. And there is always more than one solution. I think the easiest solution in your case is:

1. Place rafters that are much longer than you need. Then, once they are in place, you can often cut them to the correct length in one step (rather than stretching and cutting each bit individually). I recommend choosing the rafter anchor point carefully to suit the roof geometry setout (I chose bottom centre in this case).

2. Place a section through the centre of a rafter (along its length) and open the section view.

3. Move and rotate the rafter (with OBJECTiVE > Tools > Rotate - ArchiCAD's rotate won't work in section) just as you did for the ridge.

4. If necessary, change the rafters Swivel parameter to echo the slope of the ridge at that point as it rises and falls).

5. Depending on the form and complexity of the roof, you may be able to replicate this rafter elsewhere. In the worst instance, you might need to do this rafter by rafter. In any case, only set out the rafters on one side of the leaf, mirror it to the other side, and then multiply around the building.

6. When the rafters are in place, use OBJECTiVE > Tools > Split to cut them to the correct length, e.g. along the ridge centre.