topic Re: Linking columns together floor to floor in Modeling

Linking columns together floor to floor

Anonymous — Fri, 26 May 2023 10:51:41 GMT

Hello,

I am working on developing a new 4 story building. The column locations are constantly changing and I'm finding it difficult to constantly change column locations on all the floor levels. Is there a way when I move a column on on floor the corresponding columns on other floors adjust with it? I appreciate your help!

Cheers,

Alan

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Thomas Holm — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:08:03 GMT

If you don't mind the modeling reality problem that real columns don't penetrate floor slabs just like that, you might set the lowest columnt to the combined height of them all, and then it's floor plan display to Cut or Projected. It will show on all floors that have their FCPs within its height. And you can access it and move it on any of these floors and it will move on all.
Please don't hold me responsible for the consequences though!

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Dwight — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:27:13 GMT

Place all columns on one dedicated layer.
View in 3D just that layer- see all columns.
Group in 3D, either as vertical groups or whatever....

When you move a column on one storey, the grouped ones on other storeys will also move.

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:48:14 GMT

Hotlinked module.

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:39:00 GMT

Thomas Holm has given you the 'best' tip -
when you use columns and walls this way it almost becomes Revit like!

Seriously though it works OK but be warned - if you share this file with teamwork the first person to reserve these elements gets them on all stories (...which is acceptable for columns, but if you are using walls in this manner it can be a real pain especially as that first person gets not only the walls but ALL doors and windows in those walls!)

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Dwight — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:14:00 GMT

It is interesting how this is a larger topic than it seemed initially.

The cutplane method is great if you only have a plain shape ascending through your structure.

The module method seems ideal for large projects with absolute repeatability and overall editing power. Wise me up. Am i correct that the module would be made of one lateral column array, and then placed at each level above? How would this method accommodate different floor heights that a four storey building would undoubtedly have?

Most of my experience with stacked columns in residential projects [say] is that they require individual adjustment and modifications, so the grouping method links elements vertically allowing quick unlink/relink possibilities for local changes. You'd use this method if your building had lots of variety in floor heights [and the columns will stop where you want them instead of penetrating floors.] It is not limited to columns: any group of elements that must maintain their relationship can be grouped in 3D with this method.

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:06:03 GMT

Why not just group them?

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Dwight — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:12:51 GMT

Like in 3D? Maybe make the columns on a dedicated layer and show them alone in 3D and group individual column stacks?

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

TomWaltz — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:24:20 GMT

Dwight wrote:
The module method seems ideal for large projects with absolute repeatability and overall editing power. Wise me up. Am i correct that the module would be made of one lateral column array, and then placed at each level above? How would this method accommodate different floor heights that a four storey building would undoubtedly have?

If the floor to floor height is the only difference, you could make the columns the tallest height them SEO them as needed on each floor.

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:24:49 GMT

Dwight wrote:
Like in 3D? Maybe make the columns on a dedicated layer and show them alone in 3D and group individual column stacks?

Yup.

Columns are usually on the A-COLS, S-COLS or such anyway. It's easy, but it's not a trick 😉 (New to 11 though.)

The module approach seems too tedious unless the extra security is important. BTW, the floor to floor height problems (and SEO workarounds) go away if you use multi-story modules.

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Dwight — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:27:59 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:

If the floor to floor height is the only difference, you could make the columns the tallest height them SEO them as needed on each floor.

On his album "My Feet Are Smiling" the famed American twelve-string guitarist Leo Kottke promises "I'm going to take a lovely melody and drive it right into the ground."

There's a point where you do a trick and then you do another trick and then you do yet another trick and pretty soon nobody can figure out what you did.

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Dwight — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:31:34 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Dwight wrote:
Like in 3D? Maybe make the columns on a dedicated layer and show them alone in 3D and group individual column stacks?
Yup.

Columns are usually on the A-COLS, S-COLS or such anyway. It's easy, but it's not a trick 😉 (New to 11 though.)

The module approach seems too tedious unless the extra security is important.

I'm just "having you on" since in my first posting i suggested grouping.

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:32:27 GMT

Dwight wrote:
Matthew wrote:
Dwight wrote:
Like in 3D? Maybe make the columns on a dedicated layer and show them alone in 3D and group individual column stacks?
Yup.

Columns are usually on the A-COLS, S-COLS or such anyway. It's easy, but it's not a trick 😉 (New to 11 though.)

The module approach seems too tedious unless the extra security is important.
I'm just "having you on" since in my first posting i suggested grouping.

oh I hadn't noticed

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:14:36 GMT

Dwight wrote:
Group in 3D, either as vertical groups or whatever....

When you move a column on one storey, the grouped ones on other storeys will also move.

I didn't realize multi-story grouping had been added to 11. Cool. Works well, and easiest solution.

A hotlinked module has the benefit of avoiding any placement errors (the grouping could be suspended in the group solution, resulting in mis-alignments) - but has the disadvantage Dwight mentions of different story heights, but also that the column members would be the same in each story. Frequently, of course, smaller members are needed on the upper stories.

So, yeah, I'm on board with the careful use of grouping in 11+ for this.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:59:32 GMT

Karl wrote:
A hotlinked module . . . has the disadvantage Dwight mentions of different story heights, but also that the column members would be the same in each story.

Unless you use a multi-story module.

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Dwight — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:04:49 GMT

How would that be done? I am not familiar with modules.

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Dwight — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:14:34 GMT

Nevermind. I looked it up, but it seems convoluted.

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:17:14 GMT

Dwight wrote:
How would that be done? I am not familiar with modules.

Two ways.

One is to make a PLN with nothing but the columns (and perhaps the column grid) and link this into the main building model(s).

The other is to group all the columns in 3D and then select and save them from the plan view (Save selection as module is not available in 3D). Note that if you chose to replace the selection with the newly created module it will place multiple, single story modules (just a quirk I guess).

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Dwight — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:24:36 GMT

Okay. I tried to do it by saving from the 3D and it was not possible.

This does seem like extra work since you must group the elements anyways.

What are the advantages beyond simple grouping?

Re: Linking columns together floor to floor

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:16:29 GMT

Dwight wrote:
What are the advantages beyond simple grouping?

Just the extra security that columns cannot be inadvertently moved. No big deal since the elements can be locked as well as the layer if desired. It's hard to imagine a need for it in this case. On the other hand I am using modules for the column grids - still a bit of an esoteric purpose though.