topic Re: :?: RCP in Modeling

:?: RCP

Anonymous — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:43:20 GMT

This might be a ridiculous question but is there a way I may cut a section of my building(the 3d model i build) to look at the reflected ceiling plan?
Any methods, add-ons, tricks, or otherwise?
Thanks,
-matt

Re: :?: RCP

TomWaltz — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:09:01 GMT

RCPs (and Demo drawings) are pretty high up on the list of Archicad weak areas.

You can do a lot with turning layers on and off and Display Options, but nothing that gives you a true RCP

Re: :?: RCP

Anonymous — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:18:34 GMT

okay, thanks. i was just hoping there was a way to create a true rcp.

Re: :?: RCP

Aussie John — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:17:30 GMT

You can make your cutting plane through the top of the wall and this gives you an effect of a RCP.

My bugbear with RCPs is the roof tool when used as a sloping ceiling shows the top of the roof not the bottom, the thicker the plane, the greater the plan error.

Re: :?: RCP

Richard Morrison — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:49:08 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
You can do a lot with turning layers on and off and Display Options, but nothing that gives you a true RCP

Pardon my ignorance, but what distinguishes a "true" reflected ceiling plan from the kind of RCP we can generate now?

Re: :?: RCP

__archiben — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:53:20 GMT

Richard wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but what distinguishes a "true" reflected ceiling plan from the kind of RCP we can generate now?

maybe we should lobby for an 'under-cover' fill so that when set to RCP the floor plan generates the vectorial hatching assigned to the bottom of elements?!

~/archiben

Re: :?: RCP

Thomas Holm — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:32:35 GMT

Richard wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but what distinguishes a "true" reflected ceiling plan from the kind of RCP we can generate now?

Maybe you could turn the floor into a mirror? But to look through the ceiling it has to be transparent, and thus hard to seen when reflected....

Re: :?: RCP

TomWaltz — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 01:09:07 GMT

A Reflected Ceiling Plan is supposed to be what you would see if you ran a cutting plane though your building at 4'-0" and you had a mirror mounted on top of the cutting plane, so you saw the underside of everything on the ceiling.

Re: :?: RCP

Richard Morrison — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 02:11:03 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
A Reflected Ceiling Plan is supposed to be what you would see if you ran a cutting plane though your building at 4'-0" and you had a mirror mounted on top of the cutting plane, so you saw the underside of everything on the ceiling.

Well, yeah, but what is preventing you from getting this information easily shown in 2D? You turn on the lighting layer, the ceiling grid, etc. What am I missing? An RCP is sort of a 2D fiction in any event.

Re: :?: RCP

TomWaltz — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 03:02:24 GMT

Most of the time, it works.

It's only when you have complex ceilings or want some elements to be solid lines on the RCP and dashed in the floor plan that it's a problem (for me, anyway).

Re: :?: RCP

Richard Morrison — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 04:20:46 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Most of the time, it works.

It's only when you have complex ceilings or want some elements to be solid lines on the RCP and dashed in the floor plan that it's a problem (for me, anyway).

It actually works pretty well if you put the ceiling on a zero depth story above the floor plan. Then you can put soffits as slabs on this story. Here's an example with settings; hope this helps. (Note: you may have to play around with the Floor Plan Cut Plane settings to include some of the floor below.) Just so we're clear, the only items that were drawn on the RCP level were the soffit slab & the ceiling grid; everything else was "automatic".

Re: :?: RCP

TomWaltz — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 11:01:35 GMT

.... except your door header is missing

Re: :?: RCP

Thomas Holm — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 12:52:18 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
A Reflected Ceiling Plan is supposed to be what you would see if you ran a cutting plane though your building at 4'-0" and you had a mirror mounted on top of the cutting plane, so you saw the underside of everything on the ceiling.

Tom, I'm familiar with the RCP. I was just wondering what a "true" CP was. It's kind of implicit in the concept that this is a symbolic representation.

Re: :?: RCP

Richard Morrison — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:42:44 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
.... except your door header is missing

Door headers are not traditionally shown on an RCP, at least at any firm that I ever worked at over the last 30 years. (What does a door header have to do with what's going on at the ceiling level?) Although to be precise, these headers often end up in RCPs because it's too much trouble to get rid of them, not because they are _supposed_ to be there. Many firms just use a floor plan as a base, and end up even having door swings on an RCP, as well.

Re: :?: RCP

TomWaltz — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:18:27 GMT

Richard wrote:
TomWaltz wrote:
.... except your door header is missing
Door headers are not traditionally shown on an RCP, at least at any firm that I ever worked at over the last 30 years. (What does a door header have to do with what's going on at the ceiling level?) Although to be precise, these headers often end up in RCPs because it's too much trouble to get rid of them, not because they are _supposed_ to be there. Many firms just use a floor plan as a base, and end up even having door swings on an RCP, as well.

That's funny because I've never even seen an RCP without either doors or headers. If an RCP is a true "reflection cut from 4 feet up," you would see the door headers.

Since RCPs are often used as base plans for electrical drawings with exit signs and lighting, it only makes sense to show the door location so the signage & exits are located correctly.

In Archicad, it's trivial to turn off doors in the ceiling through display options.

Re: :?: RCP

Rakela Raul — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:30:29 GMT

Door headers are not traditionally shown on an RCP, at least at any firm that I ever worked at over the last 30 years.

totally opposite for me richard.....just a few more years

Re: :?: RCP

Richard Morrison — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:46:33 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
That's funny because I've never even seen an RCP without either doors or headers. If an RCP is a true "reflection cut from 4 feet up," you would see the door headers.

Since RCPs are often used as base plans for electrical drawings with exit signs and lighting, it only makes sense to show the door location so the signage & exits are located correctly.

In Archicad, it's trivial to turn off doors in the ceiling through display options.

I suspect that what you have experienced is the result of seeing documents produced mostly in the computer era. I actually learned that RCPs were based on taking a view of approximately 1' below the ceiling (or whatever height was necessary to show everything going on at the ceiling). An RCP, again in the TRADITIONAL sense, is strictly an ARCHITECTURAL drawing. Showing electrical information (and I've seen "RCPs" with switches and wiring) is basically turning an RCP into an electrical drawing, and then it really isn't an RCP any more. If it is more efficient to do it this way, though, then fine. But usually the information on the RCP is (should be) for trades other than the electrician. Just my old fogey opinion. (C'mon, where are the old farts when I need them for support?)

Re: :?: RCP

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:22:13 GMT

Richard wrote:
(C'mon, where are the old farts when I need them for support?)

Richard,
OK , I'll chime in to support you on this one. I guess 20 years makes me kinda' an old fart. "Traditionally," I agree you are correct...that's the way I did it in the hand-drafting era. I think the other opinions are the result of ArchiCAD's, and possibly other software's, ability to turn off door and wdw symbols while leaving the openings visible.

Dan K

Re: :?: RCP

Eduardo Rolon — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 20:06:12 GMT

My experience goes the other way. I drew my first RCP by hand in the late 80's (while I was still studying) and we drew the doors and windows. Anyway GS must have gotten the idea from somewere.

Re: :?: RCP

TomWaltz — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 20:31:10 GMT

Eastern vs. Western US maybe? Could be a regional thing.