topic Re: Numeric input weirdness in Modeling

Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Fri, 26 May 2023 12:26:34 GMT

Never had this problem and am pulling my hair out. In the line or polyline tools, when entering angles in tracker the value reverts to 0 when I hit the R key to enter the length. Out of the blue one time it did not revert to 0 and the value I entered stuck, but never again. I've tried every combination of settings in the TRACKER & COORDINATE INPUT window of WE. What the heck?

Re: Numeric input weirdness

rocorona — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:08:21 GMT

Yes, very confusing. It happens with the other tools. Try disabling the two options in the Work Environment

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:58:55 GMT

Yes, Roberto, those options actually were never selected. I tried selecting them just to see if I could figure out what was happening, but I couldn't get either of them to stick. I created new USER PREF SCHEMES, but no go. Tonight, out of the blue, they ARE sticking, but I still cannot get an angle input to work--selected or not. I select the polyline or line tool, enter A, Tracker highlights the angle input area, angle is entered (doesn't matter what angle unit is used), hit R to input length of line and the angle reverts either to zero or, if I moved the curser after the initial click, the angle reverts to whatever showed prior to entering A.

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:24:43 GMT

Unless someone has another idea, it seems to me the USE RELATIVE ANGLE MEASURES set in the TRACKER AND COORDINATE INPUT window of WE is not working. This only malfunctions for me in AC 16. Still works fine in 15. I'm still running Snow Leopard and I've seen other problems including warnings that ERRORS HAVE OCCURRED, splines were corrupted and repaired by AC, and obvious graphics card incompatibilities.

Re: Numeric input weirdness

David Maudlin — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 11:55:52 GMT

Dave:

I am also running Snow Leopard but cannot reproduce your bug. I don't know what setting could cause this. Do you have the same issue if you enter the length first, then the angle?

David

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:37:44 GMT

David wrote:
Dave:

I am also running Snow Leopard but cannot reproduce your bug. I don't know what setting could cause this. Do you have the same issue if you enter the length first, then the angle?

David

Yes, David, I do. Additionally, when I enter the length first, two lasting guidelines are produced--one a circle, one a line, neither remotely useful. But the angle the line takes is always wrong.

Are you having any graphics issues in SN? (exploding pixels, long refresh times, error messages) Your computers are newer than mine, so you're probably having a different experience with 16. I've got a new MBP on the way, so I'm sure these problems will not continue for me.

Re: Numeric input weirdness

David Maudlin — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 12:22:09 GMT

Dave wrote:
Additionally, when I enter the length first, two lasting guidelines are produced--one a circle, one a line, neither remotely useful. But the angle the line takes is always wrong.

The only way I get the circle guide line is to lock (option-r) the radius, so I don't know what is happening on your end. You might try disabling Guide Lines to see if that helps.

Dave wrote:
Are you having any graphics issues in SN? (exploding pixels, long refresh times, error messages) Your computers are newer than mine, so you're probably having a different experience with 16. I've got a new MBP on the way, so I'm sure these problems will not continue for me.

I have not had display issues with Snow Leopard on either machine. You can check your graphics card against the Graphisoft list, some cards do seem to create more problems than others.

David

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:18:04 GMT

We were having a similar problem when we started using AC16- when trying to input a coordinate numerically, the origin would jump to some random location. This would happen when using the split command and also trying to place a object (wall, etc...). For example, trying to place an interior wall I would place an origin at the corner of two existing walls, type in coordinates (say, x: -3-0, y 0-0) and the wall would instead start x 27-0, y 20-0 (for example).

To fix it I unchecked "Coordinate shortcuts prefer Tracker" and checked "Show X-Y coordinates relative to User origin in Tracker" in Options--> Work Environment-->Tracker and Coordinate Input. (see attached screen shot)

I suppose the origin was defaulting to the Absolute instead of relative origin, but I don't know why.

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:24:36 GMT

Thanks for your comments, David. The problems I'm having are surely due to the age of my hardware (early 2008). I've never had any of these issues until upgrading to 16.

It's gotten even weirder. Yesterday afternoon I couldn't get the 3D window to display but a few objects at a time. SHOW ALL LAYERS did nothing. At that point it became pretty clear that it's time for a new computer. The sooner it gets her, the better.

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:38:03 GMT

designade wrote:
We were having a similar problem when we started using AC16- when trying to input a coordinate numerically, the origin would jump to some random location. This would happen when using the split command and also trying to place a object (wall, etc...). For example, trying to place an interior wall I would place an origin at the corner of two existing walls, type in coordinates (say, x: -3-0, y 0-0) and the wall would instead start x 27-0, y 20-0 (for example).

To fix it I unchecked "Coordinate shortcuts prefer Tracker" and checked "Show X-Y coordinates relative to User origin in Tracker" in Options--> Work Environment-->Tracker and Coordinate Input. (see attached screen shot)

I suppose the origin was defaulting to the Absolute instead of relative origin, but I don't know why.

I've been using AC long enough that I can usually figure out any issues that come up, but I've been referring to the HELP pages quite a bit the last few days and have come to realize that they leave a lot to be desired. The explanation for those controls could definitely be explained better. Because logic wasn't working for me, I have tried every combination of the tracker and coordinate input settings with no joy. I definitely have hardware issues--can't blame it on AC. Thanks for chiming in.

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Sep 2012 23:00:44 GMT

Hi all - speaking of numeric input weirdness...anyone have this happen? In AC15 (have 16 but am afraid to use it yet...) I get a beep when I hit a numeric key to try to input a length. If I
reboot the computer a few times it will work again. It happens in old imported files and new files. This does not happen in AC10 so it cannot be the keyboard. I have a 2.66 12 core using Lion. Thanks for listening!

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Sep 2012 23:21:09 GMT

Correction - rebooting the computer does not fix it but new & reset does. (sorry, been staring at it too long...)

Re: Numeric input weirdness

PB — Wed, 05 Sep 2012 06:30:25 GMT

Dave, your signature shows a Retina MBP......are you now using AC16 on this, & have your problems disappeared?

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Wed, 05 Sep 2012 20:05:10 GMT

PB wrote:
Dave, your signature shows a Retina MBP......are you now using AC16 on this, & have your problems disappeared?

Yes--now using Lion on a MBP 15" retina.

No--the problems have not disappeared.

Re: Numeric input weirdness

NCornia — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 22:47:27 GMT

Dave et al,

The tracker and the coordinate palette are essentially there to perform the same function. One can be used in the presence of the other but if you do so there can be some stepping on toes, so to speak. My recommendation to new users is to leave the coordinates palette off completely and just use the tracker. I use ArchiCAD quite successfully without using the coordinates palette at all.

I know the last two statements may cause a strong reaction amongst many long time users. The coordinates palette is commonly employed by users who started before ArchiCAD 10. It is a great tool and if it provides benefit you should continue to use it. But if you are going to use the Tracker at the same time as the Coordinates palette then you must realize that ArchiCAD has to send the keyboard instructions to one tool or the other and I think this is where the confusion is coming from. ArchiCAD does not understand the user's intent it only follows the user's instructions.

We have built some provisions into the Work Environment options, as Roberto and designade mentioned, to allow you to make the two coexist but I recommend choosing one tool or the other. My recommendation for users going forward is to use the Tracker but it's not a mandate.

Dave wrote:
This only malfunctions for me in AC 16. Still works fine in 15.

I will look a little deeper to see if there is a change between the two but upon testing it just now I don't see a difference in behavior. A possibility that a migrated work environment from a previous version is in the mix?

Dave wrote:
I've been using AC long enough that I can usually figure out any issues that come up, but I've been referring to the HELP pages quite a bit the last few days and have come to realize that they leave a lot to be desired. The explanation for those controls could definitely be explained better.

I will see about reviewing the help documentation and see if we can improve it.

Dave wrote:
Because logic wasn't working for me, I have tried every combination of the tracker and coordinate input settings with no joy.

If there is indeed a bug we will investigate it. You are welcome to contact us directly at "support at graphisoft dot com"

Best regards,

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 17:13:54 GMT

NCornia wrote:
Dave et al,

My recommendation for users going forward is to use the Tracker but it's not a mandate.

Using Tracker without the Coordinates Palette gives me exactly the same (incorrect) results. This is what happens: Choose the Line Tool (Polyline, etc.) - Click to start - keyboard entry A - enter value - keyboard R to set length and the A value in Tracker reverts to 0 or if using surveyor's unit, reverts to N 90 E. I've experimented with every combination of settings in WE>Tracker & Coord. Input with no change in results. I would like to remedy this soon, as it is a huge pain in the posterior to draw property boundaries.

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:10:10 GMT

I had weird behaviour with angle input too in AC16.
When I tried to lock the angle I was always locked on a guide line started from 0,0 angled to current pointer position using always absolute polar coordinates (really what's the use of Abs Polar Coordinates?).
I solved it by opening the Coordinates Palette and discovered that the Delta (Δ) sign for polar input was off. Select it (make it relative) and you are done.
Playing around showed that it was the only place you could actually turn on relative polar input. So maybe it is not a bug but just a bad default preference that is hard to change.

Everything described above is from a clean AC16 Greek MAC Install

I hope my reply was helpful.

PS my hardware is much older and weirder (I also own a Core2Duo Hackintosh that actually works)

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Wed, 28 Nov 2012 01:28:48 GMT

This problem still exists in AC 16 under Mountain Lion. Un bleepin' believable.

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:41:52 GMT

Dave wrote:
NCornia wrote:
Dave et al,

My recommendation for users going forward is to use the Tracker but it's not a mandate.
Using Tracker without the Coordinates Palette gives me exactly the same (incorrect) results. This is what happens: Choose the Line Tool (Polyline, etc.) - Click to start - keyboard entry A - enter value - keyboard R to set length and the A value in Tracker reverts to 0 or if using surveyor's unit, reverts to N 90 E. I've experimented with every combination of settings in WE>Tracker & Coord. Input with no change in results. I would like to remedy this soon, as it is a huge pain in the posterior to draw property boundaries.

So, Graphisoft has been able to reproduce this problem. We've also discovered why some folks suffer and others do not experience the problem. In WE > User Preference Schemes > Tracker and Coordinate Input, selecting the "Prefer polar coordinates in Tracker..." option turns on the bad behavior--and it doesn't seems to be reversible. Unselecting it and drawing results in AC misbehavior.

The problem has been passed along to Budapest. In the meantime, there does seem to be a workaround, though I don't believe it worked in AC 15 (where I first noticed this problem). If you enter N 45 15 E for the angle, the result is correct--that is, do not enter N45 15E as you are supposed to be able to do, but include a space between the compass points and the numbers.

If that doesn't work for you, please post here. I'm not sure when this became a viable workaround, because I tried this and countless other gymnastics in the past with no luck, but it has been working for me without fail for about a week now.

Re: Numeric input weirdness

Dave Jochum — Wed, 10 Apr 2013 21:17:24 GMT

Dave wrote:
So, Graphisoft has been able to reproduce this problem. We've also discovered why some folks suffer and others do not experience the problem. In WE > User Preference Schemes > Tracker and Coordinate Input, selecting the "Prefer polar coordinates in Tracker..." option turns on the bad behavior--and it doesn't seems to be reversible. Unselecting it and drawing results in AC misbehavior.

The problem has been passed along to Budapest. In the meantime, there does seem to be a workaround, though I don't believe it worked in AC 15 (where I first noticed this problem). If you enter N 45 15 E for the angle, the result is correct--that is, do not enter N45 15E as you are supposed to be able to do, but include a space between the compass points and the numbers.

If that doesn't work for you, please post here. I'm not sure when this became a viable workaround, because I tried this and countless other gymnastics in the past with no luck, but it has been working for me without fail for about a week now.

One further note on this issue: You must enter the length of the line first, then the angle. If you enter the angle first, then hit R to enter the length, the angle reverts to a bad number.