topic Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique in Modeling

Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

rob2218 — Tue, 23 May 2023 14:51:19 GMT

question:
I have an RCP I need to do.
I have a 'slab object' that is the ceiling.
it's 8'-0" off the story floor height.

it's 2" thick slab object, has the grid attached to it as vectoral hatch pattern.
I need to be able to put RCP objects, such as supply grilles, return grilles, lights...whatever, to a specific grid intersection, yet I cannot do that because the lines being used by the vectoral hatch don't have intersections as points I can select.

What is the best way to 'make/force' the vectoral hatch lines in the 2x2 grid pattern to be "clickable" so I can select intersections?

I've tried the "move the grid" origin to a location where there is an intersection on the celing but that gets cumbersome when each ceiling in each space has a different orgin point.

Another work around I've done is draw 2d plines 2 feet on center both horizontally and vertically. that's ok I suppose but I want the 2" thick slab object to show the grid pattern in 3d as well as it be intersectable in 2d????

Help and thanks in advance.

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

rob2218 — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:44:12 GMT

here's what I'm talking about "graphically" for those of you who need to see.
a picture truly is worth a 1000 words....how much would a video then be worth?

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

rob2218 — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:45:39 GMT

Finally the image size made it uploaded sheesh!!!

here's what I'm talkin' bout.
the grid associated to the slab ceiling object is vectoral in 2d plan...but I can't click on the intersection of the line work??? why not is beyond me.

So I either have to 2d the lines in the plan RCP view or....what???

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

Dennis Lee — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:38:24 GMT

1. Show the "Fill Handles" from "On Screen View Options"
2. Start placing them at the origin and move them around in multiples of 2'

or

2. Set your temporary origin to the fill handle and set the grid snap to 2'.

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

Laura Yanoviak — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:10:54 GMT

Dennis wrote:
1. Show the "Fill Handles" from "On Screen View Options"
2. Start placing them at the origin and move them around in multiples of 2'

or

2. Set your temporary origin to the fill handle and set the grid snap to 2'.

This is our practice. Although it would be nice to be able to click on the intersections of ceiling grids, I'm glad AC doesn't snap to vectorial hatches the way ACAD does -- that was more bother than convenience.

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

Anonymous — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:17:48 GMT

Laura wrote:
Dennis wrote:
1. Show the "Fill Handles" from "On Screen View Options"
2. Start placing them at the origin and move them around in multiples of 2'

or

2. Set your temporary origin to the fill handle and set the grid snap to 2'.
This is our practice. Although it would be nice to be able to click on the intersections of ceiling grids, I'm glad AC doesn't snap to vectorial hatches the way ACAD does -- that was more bother than convenience.

I think that may be why they haven't tried it yet. Imagine having snaps to all the dots, lines and squiggles in all the hatch patterns and symbol fills. Nice when you want it but a major pain most of the time.

Perhaps if it were an option like the magnet selection thingie using option/alt + spacebar to toggle the fill snaps on and off with the selection tool (ie arrow or shift key).

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

rob2218 — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:56:34 GMT

"NOT" being able to snap to two basic intersecting lines is ridiculous.

I'm not asking and no where did I ask for ALL the hatch patterns to be "snappable" to.........i'm merely asking for the a typical (which there are millions of commercial and residential work here in the U.S. and Internationally) samples where the intersecting lines of a 2x2 or a 2x4 ceiling grid would be of most benifit and time savings............NOT ALL THE HATCH PATTERNS need snaps to them.

I mean seriously folks...a 2x2 ceiling grid is typical very typical in construction.....

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

Dennis Lee — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:37:19 GMT

rob2218 wrote:
"NOT" being able to snap to two basic intersecting lines is ridiculous.

I'm not asking and no where did I ask for ALL the hatch patterns to be "snappable" to.........i'm merely asking for the a typical (which there are millions of commercial and residential work here in the U.S. and Internationally) samples where the intersecting lines of a 2x2 or a 2x4 ceiling grid would be of most benifit and time savings............NOT ALL THE HATCH PATTERNS need snaps to them.

I mean seriously folks...a 2x2 ceiling grid is typical very typical in construction.....

I understand your frustration. One thing I learned over the years with AC though, is that if you keep questioning WHY, then it will get you even more frustrated. Unless you are a programmer and take things into your own hands by developing an add-on or something, it's much more productive to ask HOW, then just do it. This placing lights and grilles at the correct location might seem very stupid and harder way to do it, and it may be, but there are far greater benefits of using ArchiCAD in the overall process. After a while, you'll soon get used to it all and will think why you were frustrated in the first place...

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

Anonymous — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:40:33 GMT

rob2218 wrote:
"NOT" being able to snap to two basic intersecting lines is ridiculous.

I'm not asking and no where did I ask for ALL the hatch patterns to be "snappable" to.........i'm merely asking for the a typical (which there are millions of commercial and residential work here in the U.S. and Internationally) samples where the intersecting lines of a 2x2 or a 2x4 ceiling grid would be of most benifit and time savings............NOT ALL THE HATCH PATTERNS need snaps to them.

I mean seriously folks...a 2x2 ceiling grid is typical very typical in construction.....

From the programmer's point of view this ia not a simple matter. Programming for special case conditions leads to cumbersome, complicated and difficult to maintain software. Many of the complaints we have here in the forums are due to just such decisions made in long ago to accommodate the hardware limitations of the day.

Realistically if GS were to implement this it seems they would have to enable the snaps for all vector fills or they will be buried with complaints from all the folks who want it for some purpose other than ceiling tiles. Practically speaking this means there needs to be a function to turn this feature on and off in a way that is convenient to its use.

This could be the keyboard toggle as I described before, or perhaps a new setting in the fill attributes to enable snaps for specific fills.

I am just suggesting a way that this could be done. I really don't understand your heated reaction.

You are also ignoring the more obvious solution of simply having a proper ceiling tool instead of cobbling them together from slabs and roofs and other bits.

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

Dennis Lee — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:40:52 GMT

BTW, off topic, if those partitions continue past the ceiling in section (as shown in the 3d view), shouldn't you have your grid separate for each room? Or are your partitions anchored to the bottom of the ceiling grid only?

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

Eduardo Rolon — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:16:22 GMT

What about using the Curtain Wall Tool for the RCP? It should have all the snaps that you want.

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=29004&highlight=reflected+curtain+wall

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

rob2218 — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:00:49 GMT

Dennis wrote:
BTW, off topic, if those partitions continue past the ceiling in section (as shown in the 3d view), shouldn't you have your grid separate for each room? Or are your partitions anchored to the bottom of the ceiling grid only?

good observation.
partitions should only go to underside of ceiling. they should not go thru in this particular case. the ceiling grid is not "cut" in the field rather the offices only have partition to underside of ceiling.

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

rob2218 — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:09:34 GMT

".....I really don't understand your heated reaction."
I'm sorry if you misunderstood my question. it appears it is not as easy as it seems to express a point in a text comment vs. in real life. i'm sure in 100 years will get there though. So just to be clear.....there's no "heated reaction" here.

it simply seems to me that a simple "intersection snap toggle" may go along way in future versions. Typical ceiling intersections are most common throughout the architectural practice.

I've been using Archicad now since release 9. Did a 52,000 s.f. cruise ship terminal facility with it out of San Diego.....you can see it here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOAsN54kCp0

I designed the terminal, created the DWG's in archicad and well, the rest is history so I am familiar with the software.

i'm simply suggesting a simply approach to snapping to grid lines for ceiling construction documentation functionality.

Matthew wrote:
rob2218 wrote:
"NOT" being able to snap to two basic intersecting lines is ridiculous.

I'm not asking and no where did I ask for ALL the hatch patterns to be "snappable" to.........i'm merely asking for the a typical (which there are millions of commercial and residential work here in the U.S. and Internationally) samples where the intersecting lines of a 2x2 or a 2x4 ceiling grid would be of most benifit and time savings............NOT ALL THE HATCH PATTERNS need snaps to them.

I mean seriously folks...a 2x2 ceiling grid is typical very typical in construction.....
From the programmer's point of view this ia not a simple matter. Programming for special case conditions leads to cumbersome, complicated and difficult to maintain software. Many of the complaints we have here in the forums are due to just such decisions made in long ago to accommodate the hardware limitations of the day.

Realistically if GS were to implement this it seems they would have to enable the snaps for all vector fills or they will be buried with complaints from all the folks who want it for some purpose other than ceiling tiles. Practically speaking this means there needs to be a function to turn this feature on and off in a way that is convenient to its use.

This could be the keyboard toggle as I described before, or perhaps a new setting in the fill attributes to enable snaps for specific fills.

I am just suggesting a way that this could be done. I really don't understand your heated reaction.

You are also ignoring the more obvious solution of simply having a proper ceiling tool instead of cobbling them together from slabs and roofs and other bits.

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

Laura Yanoviak — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:15:03 GMT

Perhaps it would be best to wish for [have you placed your Wish?] a Ceiling Tool as opposed to snappable Fills. This would also help with IFC translation, I believe, but Matthew knows better.

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

rob2218 — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:31:21 GMT

umm....now your on to something. a "Ceiling tool"...yeah...GS you listening to this gal?

Laura wrote:
Perhaps it would be best to wish for [have you placed your Wish?] a Ceiling Tool as opposed to snappable Fills. This would also help with IFC translation, I believe, but Matthew knows better.

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

alemanda — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:45:35 GMT

The CW tool is perfectly suitable for the purpose of false ceiling.
There's also an addon produced by CIGRAPH called archipanel and it's been created just for raised floors and false ceilings.
Have a look at it.
www.cigraph.it

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:31:00 GMT

Laura wrote:
Perhaps it would be best to wish for [have you placed your Wish?] a Ceiling Tool as opposed to snappable Fills. This would also help with IFC translation, I believe, but Matthew knows better.

Of course a ceiling tool is the proper solution. Having modeled over a million sf of ceilings this has been a priority wish of mine for years. The IFC problem is significant. By default they are exported as floors (or roofs, depending on the tool used).

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

David Larrew — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:06:08 GMT

I agree, a "Ceiling" Tool would be the ideal solution (wish). I would definitely vote YES, we need something like that. It shouldn't be that hard to build a "Ceiling" Tool based off the "Curtain Wall" Tool code.

I have been using and teaching versions of the following technique since AC6.5...
http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=a494353275f2822b27df861a8&id=34a83e4298

This is a link to one of my archived newsletters, the technique is described in the "ArchiTIP" section.

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

Laura Yanoviak — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:33:24 GMT

Wish has been made here

Re: Reflected Ceiling Plans - best technique

David Larrew — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:43:35 GMT

Thanks, Laura. You know what I voted.