topic Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un in Documentation

Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension units?

Chazz — Mon, 22 May 2023 22:02:31 GMT

Maybe some of you less insular practitioners could illuminate this US bumpkin on life beyond feet and inches:

What are the common scales for the following views:

- Site plan
- Floor plans
- Interior elevations
- exterior elevations

And what are the units used to dimension those views?

I know there is variation depending on project size, local convention and probably personal preference --just as there is here in BushWorld-- but I'm just looking for guidelines. Most of my work is sub 500 Sq. Meter retail. Any information greatly appreciated.

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:49:05 GMT

Probably no use to you whatever Chazz , but in the UK...

For Planning -

Location - 1:1250
Block Plan - 1:500
Site Plan - 1:200
Building Plans - 1:100
Building Elevs - 1:100
Site Elevs - 1:200

For Building Regs / Construction drawings -

Plans - 1:50
Exterior Elevs - 1:50
Interior Elevs - 1:20
Sections - 1:50
Details - 1:2 / 1:5 / 1:10

Dimensioned in either metres or millimetres (but consistently one or the other)

Hope that helps you in some way!

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Dwight — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:51:37 GMT

And it is easy to forget in the infinite unscaled world of cyberosity, that the scale you use is the one that fits on the sheet.

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Chazz — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 19:56:31 GMT

Peter wrote:
Probably no use to you whatever Chazz , but in the UK..

Thanks Peter. EXACTLY what I was looking for. Is there any reason to think that the conventions in continental Europe, and Asia would be any different? (I've never had a project in africa or places other than these and probably won't) Lets hope not.

And thanks to you I'll forever banish that stepchild of dimensionality, the centimeter.....

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Thomas Holm — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:59:03 GMT

Chazz wrote:
And thanks to you I'll forever banish that stepchild of dimensionality, the centimeter.....

In Germany they use centimeters. And Half centimeters, expressed with a superscript 5 after the dimension figure!

Here is Sweden it's millimeters whenever possible, that's always except for really big site plans.
One exception: Levels (heights) are mostly written in meters, with two decimals. Never understood why.

Most used scales are the same as in the UK except that 1:400 is common for site plans.

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Dwight — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:14:43 GMT

The general loss of the centimetre breaks my heart because it actually is a unit that makes building technology sense. Trust the Germans to divide it in half. I wonder what they do for the finest measurement known to man?

Christo , my Greek friend, said the centimetre was the perfect measurement for work crews working with stucco after lunch.

Canada has this schizophrenetic approach to metric. We might as well have stayed imperial since our 2x4 lumber is 38x89mm and our plywood is 1219x2438 because we send so much down South to the merkins who demand real dimensions for real money. Imagine a 4x9??

What a great thing it was to visit New Zealand and hold a 50x100 mm stick of lumber. But you can hardly call that dog-killing bludgeon a"stick."

It is actually cheaper to have the crew cut plywood down to 1200x2400 than make a special order when the job demands it.

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

__archiben — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:41:31 GMT

Dwight wrote:
What a great thing it was to visit New Zealand and hold a 50x100 mm stick of lumber. But you can hardly call that dog-killing bludgeon a"stick."

45x90. perfect for cracking around the contractor's head. and the treatment will give you a nasty tummy if you eat it as well . . .

chazz - peter's summary is pretty spot on, and local authorities tend to specify the scale requirements for all submissions. but remember that it's all about getting your set of information out in the best way possible: depending on what you're working with you may be able to get away with some 1:20 enlarged sections that do the same job as two 1:50 and 1:10 sections . . .

mm is generally the unit of choice in the UK, australia and here in new zealand. (but metres for site and levels)

cm are used throughout mainland europe.

i would be interested to know what asia, south amercia and the middle east use . . .

cheers
~/archiben

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 12:15:22 GMT

In fact, in switzerland (and I think, in germany too), measures below one meter are in cetimeter, above in meters. Elevations are allways in meters.

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Djordje — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:02:42 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
i would be interested to know what asia, south amercia and the middle east use . . .

Imperial is alive and kicking in the ex Raj ... especially for the areas, sqft rules, although millimeters are the plan unit of choice, especially for the site plans!!!

ME is mostly a matter of who got where first - all the units are equal, as long as the stuff is consistent. Dubai Municipality for example wants both, especially on the site plans, the rule book is Imperial, the materials are metric ...

... but around here, the important thing is to build it fast, as it usually sold off plan, and resold at least five time at 50% profit each time, until the excavation has started. 😉

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Link — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:47:25 GMT

Peter's list is true of what I have seen in my travels to metric countries too. The only excpetion is that interior elevations are often scaled at 1:50.

Centimetres are deifintely out.

Oh and in the UK they call their details bespoke!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:00:24 GMT

I've never been a big fan of 1:25 scale, but have been persuaded to use it lately as so many of our drawings are reduced from A1 to A3, hence 1:25 becomes 1:50 (not many people have a 1:40 scale rule).

And centimeters just confuse me.

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

__archiben — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:20:28 GMT

s2art wrote:
... as so many of our drawings are reduced from A1 to A3, hence 1:25 becomes 1:50 (not many people have a 1:40 scale rule).

absolutely - i've been doing all enlarged room plans and cabinetry at this scale now for the same reason. the trouble is, try and find a new scale rule with 1:25 on it!

also, you can always fit slightly more on a page at 1:25 than you can at 1:20 without any loss of clarity (it's negligible).

i was always a fan of 1:20, but those two reasons are swaying me now . . .

~/archiben

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

gpowless — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:34:38 GMT

It really is a sad attestation to the poor implementation of advanced technology to be discussing this. We can model entire buildings inside our computers, devise new and interesting ways to make buildings complete with documentation on virtually every component, and yet we need to consider that the project manager can't read the paper version of our drawings unless it fits the physical scale he has in his briefcase. Never mind that fact that most of make sure we have the disclaimer on our drawings :DO NOT SCALE DRAWINGS!.....

This is clearly the fact of the tail trying to wag the dog.......

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

vistasp — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:45:33 GMT

Dwight wrote:
Canada has this schizophrenetic approach to metric.... our plywood is 1219x2438...

Djordje wrote:
Imperial is alive and kicking in the ex Raj ... especially for the areas, sqft rules, although millimeters are the plan unit of choice, especially for the site plans!!!

It's worse than simply schizophrenic here; similar to what Dwight said about Canada, our plywoods are 1220x2440 - a token "rounding off" of the metric dimensions to comply with the law which mandates that manufactured materials must follow the metric system.

Wall and floor tiles start off as multiples of 150mm but, as you go towards the larger sizes and the discrepancy increases, they often try and match the imperial dimensions - so you might have flooring of 610x610mm. Adding to the confusion, a lot of stuff is coming from S.E. Asia or Southern Europe these days, so we're seeing unfamiliar sizes by the boatload!

Lumber is a relatively unregulated business and is still blatantly priced in cubic feet. As Djorje said, areas - especially for property - are imperial. Land is measured in a variety of units - depending on which part of the country you're in. Acres, "Metric" Acres (rounded off to 40,000sft and more commonly used), Sq. Yards, Ares, Hectares, Roods, Gunthas... Oh, and while official documentation uses the metric system, the local preference is always written in brackets. I guess in a country with more than a hundred languages, a half-dozen systems of measurement are par for the course.

And finally, after spending all my student life working in metric, I still prefer to visualise in feet!

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:45:53 GMT

I have been using the metric system all of my life but I am still 5'7"

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

__archiben — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:25:46 GMT

gpowless wrote:
Never mind that fact that most of make sure we have the disclaimer on our drawings :DO NOT SCALE DRAWINGS!.....

absolutely - but to be able to print out on conveniently sized paper and sketch options over the top are what make it worth the effort . . .

(not to mention it feels like a part of something bigger rather than floundering around on it's own i'm all for things tying nicely in with each other . . .)

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Ignacio Azpiazu — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:43:59 GMT

One other thing which I think is about as important as metric/imperial, which go together with it if you are thinking of Germany/US but I am pretty sure there must be some hybrids in between, are sheet sizes and rolled-vs-folded. My current understanding of the thing is:

If you roll and eventually bind your drawings,
- your US-style titleblock will take a full-height strip of your drawing to the right,
- your whole package is laid out for a single sheet size,
- because of that you will have sheets with more than one drawing and you need to show the scale in the drawing title and not the titleblock, and
- you need a full-size cover sheet for the drawing list and project information where you can also throw in the location map, perhaps code info, whatever.

On the other hand if you fold your DIN/ISO sized sheets down to A4,
- you want your DIN/ISO titleblock on your lower right corner,
- you don't care about individual sheet size as long as it is folded down to A4,
- you prefer avoiding coordination trouble by putting one drawing only in each sheet, your scale then shows in the sheet titleblock which also contains the Archicad drawing title information (the Archicad drawing title is not needed for 1 drawing per sheet) (even details and door elevations etc. are easier to coordinate at one A4 or A3 sheet per drawing, although I've seen people using large sheets with many details in the metric world too),
- and your front page and drawing lists can be A4s so you don't need a huge fancy cover sheet.

There are standards for all of the titleblocks and stuff, but I never understood the US titleblock and cover sheet until I understood that they roll everything.

Re: Metric Noob: What are the Common scales and dimension un

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:55:18 GMT

That's a really interesting little factette Ignacio. I didn't realise there was that much difference between folded and rolled drawings. Thanks for the info!