topic Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production in Documentation

I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Anonymous — Fri, 19 May 2023 14:08:12 GMT

In AC7 I used the QuickView tto navigate Layer Combos. In a section window I had all my symbols and text settings. This Section faithfully followed the Quick View I clicked on, I had at my fingertip any symbol line fill text I can dream of except walls slabs roof. I was hoping for 8 – but what s surprise:

In 8.1 with the new navigator the section does not follow the layer combination, I may be wrong here but looks like I was rubbed of 80% of my productivity.

I am also getting such huge number of view Sets that it worst to navigate then the layer combos before Quick View was introduced. Using the pop up View Setting from the bottom of the Project Map or toggling between the Map and View set is insane. Both of them open leave less screen space on the 23” Cinema Display then AC6.5 on an Imac,

I am miserable and need to punch the one advising GS. I wonder who is advising GS, who and why it is listened to.

I may be wrong but I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production. It is just the most unproductive Construction Document tool I could imagine, and this is a fact no opinions please, unless aint so!

And all those schedules, has amy of these guys opened a set of CD made for lets say a $5M commercial building, has any of them noticed a doot schedule where every piece of hardware it listed.

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

gpowless — Fri, 06 Feb 2004 02:53:10 GMT

Set your layer combination. Right click the Navigator view and "redefine". The layers, scale and display settings will follow your selection.

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Feb 2004 03:46:44 GMT

Not so the layer comb of the section does not adjust the plan

Set your layer combination. Right click the Navigator view and "redefine". The layers, scale and display settings will follow your selection

Not so, the layer comb of the section does not adjust the plan as was in 7. This renders the section not fit to act as a palette. So GS screwed a most valuable function out of sheer crassness, a total lack of understanding productivity. This is what CADENCE should point out. Yes, who cares about productivity?

Just remember why QUICK VIEW came about, to help navigate, but with the complexity crated we do not see the forest because of the trees

I am sick, what a waste running an office, spending $$$ to get the new G5s just to find out that the darn thing does not work.

I personally use the 3d max 20% of the time. Anything made in 3d is redrawn almost in its entirety in 2D unless it some simple modern nothing. This because of changed after the 2d is unlinked. If this software wants to succeed need much more emphases on 2d tools and methodology. Believe me the day when the *** hits the fan will come.

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

David Larrew — Fri, 06 Feb 2004 04:09:29 GMT

Albert,

It sounds like your Section/Elevation window is still in "Model" mode. Try "Unlinking" the window from the model and resetting your ViewSets.

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:39:00 GMT

I am amazed, just what are you guys doing for a living. You certainly do not create Cds because then it would be obvious that the changes stink.
To put it in a different way, display options should be attributes of layer combinations. This was the case in AC7 but not anymore. A Quick View was an easy way of accessing a layer combo with a precise assigned display option. The active section had the same layer combo as the active plan thus was easy to use it as s a palette.

What GS did. Incapable of solving problems raised since AC4 under the pretext of creating the navigator it get rid of the Quick View navigation tool. For a good while a bunch of losers acclaimed the darn publisher as some sort of miracle some of them even pretending that one could just work out of AC without PM. So GS goes for it and we have the present abortion. It is nothing but and organized template to view “ save visible layers”. The real deal is the linking one but that is not yet usable and over network is unusable.

All this is nothing but snake oil salesmanship. It generates chaos a huge complexity extremely slow navigation it caters to the a consultant based design and not to the in-house AE concept. Works for pure design where in fact layers are not that important and not that many. One needs a toll to produce be a in constant state of motion navigation between layers and the only then the only toll was sacrifice. Hey GS I asked for Quick Views to be improved canceled.

Since it is not malice involved from GS there is just one other possibility leff, plain old stupidity barking up the wrong tree.

GS please understand it from me, designing in 2d 3d AC is one thing for what Quick Views is the solution and creating 2d data for PM is an other issue.

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:32:10 GMT

Adalbert,

I am sorry I haven't time for a detailed response, but I feel compelled to say that I love the improvements in 8.1. I (we) can produce all of our work (SD, DD, and CD) so much faster that I find it hard to understand your difficulties. The drawing production is becoming so automated that the only tedious parts (besides the occasional troublesome client) is putting in the notes and dimensions (oh, and ceiling plans, and roof plans... of course ).

There are many areas of the program that could use improvements (I think I'm at least as prolific in my wish list items as any one) but IMHO the program has been improving at a steadily accelerating rate since I started using it 15 years ago.

Of course I have to admit that many of the major improvements have been consistent with (and perhaps in some small way, based on) many of my wishes over the years.

In any case, though I don't share your opinion in this case, I appreciate the challenging perspective you have been bringing us all these years. Here's to hoping you keep using ArchiCAD and complaining about it here for many more years to come.

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:24:46 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Adalbert,

I am sorry I haven't time for a detailed response, but I feel compelled to say that I love the improvements in 8.1. I (we) can produce all of our work (SD, DD, and CD) so much faster that I find it hard to understand your difficulties. The drawing production is becoming so automated ...

I quite agree, Matthew...well said.

Adalbert, I know you're a long-time user, but it sure seems that a few hours spent with a nearby consultant like Matthew would bring you up to speed on the new features of 8.1. But, if you want to discuss the problems here, give a very specific description of a QuickView that you are unable to create in 8.1 for example and we can see if there is a loss of functionality, or otherwise one of us can suggest how it is done in 8.1

With respect to your comment about sections and plans and layer combinations ... 8.1 behaves exactly the same as earlier versions - there is only one layer combination active across all windows (there is a wishlist item to change this) ... so whatever combo is visible in your section will be visible for your plan. Aha! I think I see what's going wrong for you -- you are probably switching to or re-opening your section by double clicking on its icon in the view set ... which will reset the layer combo. If you're switching between the section (used for your object palette) and plan and want to keep the same layers/etc settings and cannot see both windows, switch back and forth via the project map, not a view set (or any number of other methods). This is done most conveniently if you have a wide monitor or, better, two monitors so that you can display the "View Editor" at all times, rather than the Navigator.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

TomWaltz — Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:11:35 GMT

Adalbert

it really sounds to me like what you need more than anything is to update your skills.

I have 10 users who are using Archicad 8.1 (started on the much maligned 8.0) to crank out drawings from schematic design through construction documents and construction admin. Even though every one of them has less than 1 year experience on Archicad, they are all faster and more effective than ever before on their former software.

Archicad is perfectly usable for construction documents, as well as many other functions.

It seems to be your own lack of ability is holding you back. A little training would take you a long way.

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Petros Ioannou — Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:39:34 GMT

I think that the truth is somewhere between....It is a big issue if someone needs to hire a specialist to adjust his office needs in each project. You never had this need when you draw everything by hand or probably you don't have this luxury in some countries or due to economic reasons. Computer AIDED design as the word suggests is a helping tool, not something that will mess up your work. IMHO everyone should learn deeply the use of a program. This means spending quite a lot of time searching, practicing and even playing (like most of us did with a compass, a ruler, reading geometry etc.).
It is also important not to forget that we are architects and our main objective is architecture and not being computer experts-So if someone finds the right tool for him he should stick to it- even if it is ArchiCAD 5 or Claris cad. Whatever suits your work better. Personally being a user since v.5 I didn't earned much from upgrading ArchiCAD 6 to 7. The upgrade to 8.1 was essential for me. But I don't think that there will ever be a program version that could satisfy us all because of different practices, different number of employees, different countries etc. I work in Greece and we do not design log houses here. So if I had to speak for myself I don't want that log-detail option in walls. BUT too many users, overseas (and not only) are using it a lot so...If a company had to make a program that fits my needs probably it would be useless to you. If it was fully customisable then it wouldn't be user-friendly. It is a thin line to balance things.
To conclude, there are too many different viewpoints to this subject so lets be fairer to everyone...
I hope I didn't bore you

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production PHILOSOPHY

Dwight — Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:34:04 GMT

Some people think that repeated complaints on this forum will embarrass GS into making changes in the application [Do you notiice the irony of the words "bare" and "ass" in the word embarassment?]. But mostly, they liked things the way they were.[Our colleague still in version 5, for example.]

While improvement is always available, we've seen so much broadening of ArchiCAD's capacity and in most recent years, remedy of many of the glitches we've all suffered with, that when a member discovers what should be fundamental yet not documented [that I never checked] aspect [and unknown to several of the power users] - the line/arc fillet - we all fall down.

One cannot get enough training or practice to properly control all aspects of the application. While in the past I have focused on conceptual communication in ArchiCAD, I am now facing a period where I must learn to do some CD's and feel like a duffer.

Is ArchiCAD mastery collapsing?

It seems that the constant shift of program and API lag has created [worse for beta testers] a fluid situation WHERE ONE CAN NEVER CATCH UP? [yelling]

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Anonymous — Sun, 08 Feb 2004 00:05:50 GMT

Obviously I am a captive of GS’s and 8.1 is an advance and, I am not a fool.

Now back to the issue.
In 7 I had the capability of changing (with Q V) the layer combination and display option with the section fallowing with only a single click. This is gone. Certainly one can do this but with more steps.
With a single click I was capable of moving from ceiling plan to HVAC plan the section template fallowing and this is extremely important since GS does not have a template.. Now in 8.1 this is much more cumbersome. It is unlike a radial scheme where you operated at the first level from center now in 8.1 we are on the fringe with the center layer removed. Unfortunately GS and you guys do not get this, at he moment at

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Dwight — Sun, 08 Feb 2004 00:07:34 GMT

How do we do what Albert wants with one click?

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production PHILOSOPHY

Djordje — Sun, 08 Feb 2004 18:26:49 GMT

Dwight wrote:
It seems that the constant shift of program and API lag has created [worse for beta testers] a fluid situation WHERE ONE CAN NEVER CATCH UP? [yelling]

I hear you ... although 12 hours divide us.

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Karl Ottenstein — Sun, 08 Feb 2004 19:56:53 GMT

Adalbert wrote:
In 7 I had the capability of changing (with Q V) the layer combination and display option with the section fallowing with only a single click. This is gone...

Hi Adalbert,

Since it's been well over a year since I've used 7.0, I had to open an old project to understand what you're saying.

Before Dwight gets us all looking for a way to do what you want with a single click ... I should note that it takes a double-click to switch quickviews in 7.0 AFAIK.

Yes, you're correct that it takes more steps to change only the layer combo and display options (and scale) ... and nothing else. I complained about this on the list when 8.0 became public as I perceived it as a big loss in functionality as you do now. After many projects though, I have not really missed this ability because I have my view sets exactly matching my CD's and I find that navigation most convenient.

But, as many comment on this list, we each work in different ways and a key to AC has been that it allows us to do that, so I sympathize with this loss to your usual working method.

At the moment AFAIK, it takes four clicks instead of two (the double click on the QV): In Navigator or View Editor, click on the popup list of combos at the lower left to change and the popup list of Display options combos and change. (Someone posted a wishlist item to allow these lists to be permanently visible so that one click each would accomplish the change.)

Here is one hokey workaround that would let you continue to do what you want with a double click and a single click: you could create empty unlinked sections that are associated with the combo and display settings that you want (ceiling, etc.). Since sections always open in their own window, while double clicking on these dummy section views would indeed open a window that you would then close (the single click) ... you would be left with what you started with (plan and other sections) but with the new combo and display options applied. Did I say hokey (contrived)?

HTH,
Karl

I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Feb 2004 03:12:31 GMT

Thanks Karl,ig

I hate to make that many view sets from the unlinked section I use as palette:
3d Ext
3d Int
3d w/ site
3d w/ site landscape

Site Exist
Site Demo
Site
Site Landscape Exist
SiteLandscape
Site Gading
Site Hydro
Site Layout
Site Signage
Site Light

A Plan Demo
A Plan
A Plan Calc
A Plan Det
A Plan Roof
A Clg
A Clg Det
A Workstationa
A Furniture
A Flooring

S Struct Ftg
S Struct
S Struct Roof
S Struct Calc

P Plum Plan
P Plum Det

FP Fire Protection

M HVAC
M Calc
M Radiation
M Gas

E Power
E Light
C Commun

In large multi story building the view set gets complicated with many little cubbies.

When designing CDs, focused on an area you need quick movement between all the above combos with the particular display. They must be visible in a glance and with the pallet to pick up elemets. You do not need the maze we have. I do it all at once. Take the ceiling draw the fill, in the lights go to Lighting add switch add circuit inexcell, back to ceiling add diffusers SP heads go to Mechanical add VAV box....... Most of the time is the same zoom. Efficient quick focussed, Few consultants no mistakes.
Same integration between Structure and Architecture.

By the way I get this message when trying to log in to post a message “ your brouser does not support meta redirection please here to redirect” than the window closes??? Nasty on all the G5, PB , G4 1ghz, G4 733 all with X10.3.2. could this be the update

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Richard Morrison — Mon, 09 Feb 2004 18:33:14 GMT

AA:

You may be happier with using the Navigator with only the single column of Project Map displayed. This is pretty small and you can minimize it to take up relatively little "real estate" on the screen. There is a single button on it for layer combinations which can be selected to give pretty much the same effect as the former quick views process. (Unless I'm missing your point, of course.)

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

vfrontiers — Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:15:18 GMT

Yes, we all complained when they took "ENVIRONMENT" quick views away with 8.0. I, too, used that technique and am still wishing for it back again. You can set up DISPLAY OPTIONS preferences with some of the stuff, but it's not the same.

On the other hand, have you ever accepted the fact that Sect/Elevs were not meant for this... A better solution for me (yes, I said for me... so interpolate as you will).. is to create MODULES of my DRAWING TEMPLATES and HOTLINK them into the plan on a Story that is convenient. When you HOTLINK them, they have a GLOBAL Layer that will HIDE them as you need (to print) but keep all the elements on their proper layer. So If I create a TEMPLATE layer and use that as this master layer for all my different templates, I can simply make sure that it is hidden for printing and LEAVE them in the file forever. In fact, they can start HOTLINKED into the file as part of my stationery.

The HOTLINK MODULE can be moved around in plan, so if your working on a large plan, you just carry it around with you as you would a BEROL GRAPHIC TEMPLATE. And if you ever get tired of seeing it there, just DELETE it. You can always RE-MERGE it if needed.

Again, techniques to be discussed at ACUWest....

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

lapishawaii — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:28:42 GMT

I agree with you Dwight, it does seem like we can never catch-up. It's a constantly moving target that we are trying to reach. This is not a problem caused by ArchiCAD, but by the entire technology based world that we now function in. It was only a few years ago that the most technically challenging office task for an architect was to restring a mayline after the cable broke.

With that said, I find ArchiCAD to be a great program for both design and production. I've used the program for 8 years, and 8.1 does have a very long and steep learning curve. I have certainly struggled at times, but I now design all of my projects in 3D model form and can quickly produce a set of construction drawings in which none of section/elevation windows need to be unlinked (even with rather complicated forms). Each time I add to or update my drawings with the new PlotMaker interface I feel like dancing around the office. This one improvement alone is worth upgrading to 8.1. What an incredible manager of drawings and a valuable time saver.

It just takes time to understand the power and beauty of ArchiCAD 8.1. There are other options. I know very successful offices that still use maylines or much simpler programs. Instead of whining, they just decided what worked best for their situation.

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:56:22 GMT

Hi Adalbert,

Every issue that I've seen posted by you are, for the most part, EASILY achieved w/ 8.1 and with 1410 some improvements have made it even easier. I'm anxiously waiting for the next release slated for March 04 to see some more "major" (IMO) improvements many of which you've requested yourself over the years. Seems you're always trying to make a left turn by turning right, eventually you'll get there but it will take a little more effort not to mention it makes your head spin unnecessarily. Our previous discussions have always ended in your unwillingness to invest a little time and money with someone who can get you going in the direction you want, as you just insist AC has made it absolutely impossible to achieve your goals. As I've told you before I guarantee my services. This is the offer: you give me 30 hours of your time (three consecutive 10 hour days) if at the end of that 30 hours I haven't demonstrated how to achieve the results your looking for there will be NO CHARGE to you. As I've indicated to you in the past I specialise in document creation and come prepared to work with you on an actual project from beginning to "end" and will not train any other way as the hunt and peck process is a waste of my time and your money. If I'm able to show you how to resolve 95% of the productivity issues you "have" I'd expect all my normal fees plus some form of gratuity on your part. If I'm unable to do so at least everyone here can assume a degree of validity to your complaints. Personally, I think it's time to end your complaining about nonexistent issues and circumventing the way AC is designed and putting the blame on GS.

Re: I do not believe 8.1 is usable for production

TomWaltz — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:33:41 GMT

Some people just like to complain.

On the other hand, I'm curious about what kind of training you do.