topic Re: Can't add this dimension in Documentation

Can't add this dimension

Steve Jepson — Mon, 22 May 2023 21:59:37 GMT

Here is an interesting dimension problem.

I want to add a dimension from the center of this footing to the edge of a wall. I can't do it because of how the footing(drawn as a wall) is oriented.
I draw my footings as walls so they will clean up nicely.
If I rotate the footing it wont clean up.

It acts as if it will place the dimension but it wont do it.
Apparently you can't dimension from mid point on the the side of a wall to the edge of a wall. ??

You can try this with any two walls. Draw one vertical and the other horizontal.

Try to dimension from the center snap point on the edge of the vertical wall to the edge of the horizontal wall. Can't do it.

I think this is a bug because you should be able to add a dimension from any two snap points.

Re: Can't add this dimension

Anonymous — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 08:30:15 GMT

Yes, curious??
In 14 it's fine, in 15 it does what you say....
Before placing the second point, if I right click at the midpoint and add a guide line, then left click, it places the correct square marker and completes the dimension correctly...hmmm
Rob

Re: Can't add this dimension

Dennis Lee — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:08:58 GMT

Try unclicking "Dimension only the core of composite and complex walls".

Never mind - it doesn't work now for me either. It doesn't work in V14 either for me?

Re: Can't add this dimension

Dennis Lee — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:23:06 GMT

Actually, try any straight wall, and try to dimension from both ends to the mid point. It won't take it. The mid point of the wall just can't be dimensioned no matter what. I wonder if this was always the case?

Re: Can't add this dimension

Anonymous — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:01:52 GMT

You're right, doesn't work in 14..I hovered over the midpoint long enough for the guidelines to appear and it snapped to them!

Re: Can't add this dimension

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 15:50:46 GMT

Dimensions are associative to element hotspots.

The Special Snap Points (half, division, percent, etc) that you are talking about are not hotspots, but temporary snap points and so cannot be dimensioned to. They are for positioning elements.

Personally, I would never consider using anything other than a column for the footing that you show, since a structural engineer will specify its size with width x height x depth values and only the column tool lets you parametrically set all three. (Well, Beam tool, too, but doesn't make sense here.) Dimensioning is then easy as column-elements have a hotspot in their center ... which also easily lets you center the actual load bearing column on them as well.

The only workarounds I can think of for using walls as you are are:

(1) use centerline construction method for the 'wall', with the thickness of the wall in line with the continuous footer and the reference line horizontal, as we look at your screenshot. You can snap to the centerline. Of course, this will not clean up with your continuous footer, and so is more work with no advantage over using a column

(2) not recommended at all ... but you can use the Hotspot tool to place a hotspot on the special snap point and then dimension to that hotspot. You'd want to group the hotspot with your 'wall' (column footing) - but you'll have a hassle if the footing size changes - will have to move the hotspot to make the dimension correct.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Can't add this dimension

vfrontiers — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 18:54:06 GMT

I am presuming EVERYTHING in your drawing is part of the FOOTING... eg, the footing and stem wall are ONE WALL PROFILE?... yes?

If so, I guess you can let it(stem+ftg profile run thru and have the COLUMN just ADD the "extra" footing coincident with the stem's regular footing... Then I would definitely use this method as Karl suggests.

Another method is to SPLIT the SPOT FOOTING in half and dimension to the END that's the middle.

Obviously NOT optimum as you'll need to keep those two halves together if they get moved.

Re: Can't add this dimension

Steve Jepson — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 20:06:39 GMT

In this case the footings and stemwall are not the same profile. I need separate schedules for each.

I would rather use columns but they don't clean up like walls do.
I will just use a hot spot and group it to that wall/footing. There are only 3 or 4 of these spot footing in this project.

Re: Can't add this dimension

Steve Jepson — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 20:15:03 GMT

Karl wrote:
Dimensions are associative to element hotspots.

The Special Snap Points (half, division, percent, etc) that you are talking about are not hotspots, but temporary snap points and so cannot be dimensioned to.

You can on a line. Why not a wall?

Also on a wall you can not place a dimension node on a divisions mark, but you can place a dimension node on the midpoint edge of the wall. It just wont finish the job.

Re: Can't add this dimension

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 20:44:36 GMT

Steve wrote:
I would rather use columns but they don't clean up like walls do.

The clean-up that you want is that you do not want lines where the spot footing meets the continuous footing? But, in reality, doesn't the spot footing have a separate reinforcement detail, as an isolated footing does - perhaps a cage of some sort? Seems to me having those extra lines more clearly demarcates the reinforcement changes - even if things are formed up for a single concrete pour. Just how I would look at it anyway. 😉

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Can't add this dimension

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 20:59:24 GMT

Steve wrote:
Karl wrote:
Dimensions are associative to element hotspots.

The Special Snap Points (half, division, percent, etc) that you are talking about are not hotspots, but temporary snap points and so cannot be dimensioned to.
You can on a line. Why not a wall?

Also on a wall you can not place a dimension node on a divisions mark, but you can place a dimension node on the midpoint edge of the wall. It just wont finish the job.

This line business is pretty weird. If you have special snaps set to Half, the middle spot is associative, even if you later turn off special snaps or change to 3+ divisions. If you turn on 3+ divisions for special snaps and dimension to any of THOSE special snap points on a line, the dimension is NOT associative: drag the line around and you'll see the dimension chain just sit there.

If you look at your original screenshot, you'll see that in spite of clicking on the special 'half' snap point, the dimension tool behaved as if you clicked on the side of the wall with the mercedes cursor: there are two dimension marks on your wall, one on either side of the wall width at the center.

Arguably, there is either an aesthetic UI issue or a functional issue (and possibly both):

UI flaw: With the current behavior, IMHO, we should not see the checkmark cursor at special snap points with the dimension tool if it is going to behave like a mercedes-click: we should just see the mercedes cursor along the entire edge

or, functional flaw: dimensions to special snap points should be made associative based on the special snap point "formula" at the time of creation: so if set to thirds, the dimension would "remember" to associate itself 1/3 of the way from the same end no matter where the element was moved or how it was stretched (etc)

or, unintentional bug/feature: it should not be possible to associatively dimension to the midpoint of a line as is now the case. (If that was intentional, it should also work for a spline, 2D fill, etc to be consistent - but it doesn't.)

I guess one thing consistent about ArchiCAD is inconsistencies. 😉

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Can't add this dimension

Steve Jepson — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 03:36:33 GMT

The clean up shows that the elevation for the top of the spot footing is the same as the continuous footing. Lines are very important in my foundation plans because they indicate a step up or down in elevation.

There is a rebar schedule to show the reinforcement for F2.

Re: Can't add this dimension

vfrontiers — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 06:58:58 GMT

Don't mean to prolong this, but if you simply turn the FOOTING 90deg will it not clean up with the skinnier footing? (like they are crossing).. And if the footing was based on CENTERLINE, then you could dimension to that?

I am imagining that your STEMs are set to a different joinery number, so there is no chance of healing to the wrong wall...

Re: Can't add this dimension

Steve Jepson — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:35:40 GMT

Yes! Thanks Duane for pointing out the obvious.
It cleans up perfectly like that and there is no more dimension problem.

I opened up an old project to see how I did it before and all the spot footings are drawn perpendicular to the smaller continuous footing.

Re: Can't add this dimension

David Maudlin — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:27:28 GMT

Karl wrote:
This line business is pretty weird. If you have special snaps set to Half, the middle spot is associative, even if you later turn off special snaps or change to 3+ divisions. If you turn on 3+ divisions for special snaps and dimension to any of THOSE special snap points on a line, the dimension is NOT associative: drag the line around and you'll see the dimension chain just sit there.

A long time ago (I don't know which version this changed) lines always had a mid point selection dot, visible when the line was selected. This mid point selection dot is now gone. The mid point was part of the line, the other temporary special snaps are not. If you dimension to the mid point of a line, you will get the round (associative) dimension mark, and this dimension will change if the line is stretched. If you use the special snaps, you get the square (non-associative) dimension mark, and these stay in place if the line (or other element) is stretched.

David