topic Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections & in Documentation

How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections & elves

Anonymous — Tue, 30 May 2023 08:04:21 GMT

I love what archicad has done for my workflow, but drawing quality has taken a nosedive. Looking back at the elevations, sections & details I did in 2D cad programs, everything was so much more visually pleasing & easy to read. Sections had a heavy line where a composite was cut, and thinner lines within. Is there any way to get this effect in archicad without converting the section to 2D?

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Barry Kelly — Thu, 10 Apr 2014 02:08:25 GMT

For composites you can set the pen thickness in the composite settings.
For other elements you can set the cut pen in the element settings dialogue.
However this will add thicker lines to each element - not a perimeter line around a group of elements as you seem to have done.
For that you have to manually add the lines.

If you end up adding lines I would not convert to a 2D drawings.
Just add the lines and if ever your model changes then you will see those changes in the section and you can adjust your extra lines to suit.

Barry.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

KeesW — Sun, 13 Apr 2014 08:54:34 GMT

I felt exactly as you in about 1996 until I came across a book on Archicad by Stephen Rattenbury and Campbell Yule. They used AC version 6.0 to produce drawings as good as any manually produced plans I'd ever seen. They had thicker lines for details where important items were drawn in section, and correct relativities for other linework. Beautiful drawings - I could hang them on a wall! I bought Archicad and have been using it ever since. However, I think that the drawings in that book were produced to that standard with work-around's that you can still use. Campbell Yule (now CEO of Cadimage) might correct me if I am wrong.

I think that they worked over some linework in the details by using the wall tool to draw thicker lines inside the thin ones created by Archicad (3). This is called 'back-lining' and was a common manual drafting technique. Archicad, and other cad packages (except DataCad), can only draw thicker lines over existing thinner ones - but they can't offset them.

Rattenbury and Yule also created a space between components (4). These things can all be done but it is quite time consuming. If you are prepared to create a gap, using thicker lines for the component profile is easily done in Archicad and is probably your best cad alternative (5).

I understand that Revit allows the drawing of components with gaps - is that so? Sketchup produces drawings with intelligent line types of varying thicknesses - similar to manual drafting (but no gaps, I think).

I've attached a sketch of the options for window frames to explain what I mean.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:29:32 GMT

I notice nobody answered the elevations part of that question.
I'm wondering, does anybody still like to backline their elevations to simulate depth? The archicad elevations settings can do a single-step of Near/Far, but that's nothing like the traditional backlining process which really made the nearest parts of an elevation pop off the page.
If there are any resident gurus out there, I'd be interested in any thoughts on the best way to do it. A Backlining layer? Or perhaps lines drawn on a separate worksheet and then overlaid in the Layout view?

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Erwin Edel — Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:49:51 GMT

I'm allways a bit puzzled by this style of drawing. Is it an english-language market thing?

Around here (NL) we generally give heavier line weights to more important structural parts. I'd use something like 0,50 mm for prefab concrete structures, 0,35 mm for bricks, 0,25 mm for gypsum boards, 0,18 for insulation and projected linework, 0,13 and 0,09 mm for distant elements/vectorial fill pens.

It is very doable to produce up to 1:50 scale section drawings with only 2D annotation this way. Especially since ArchiCAD17 introduced building materials.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Erwin Edel — Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:57:54 GMT

Live model section vs the 2D unlinked detail below.

I'd like a few fills to behave better, but they're generally hard to see/read on the 1:50 scale, so I can live with this.

The zinc for the gutter is a zero thickness shell. Everything else (complex profile) walls, slabs, roof.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 02:49:37 GMT

Thanks Erwin. I would do the same as you for sections. That wasn't my question though. I'm looking for people's thoughts about backlining ELEVATIONS.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Bruce — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 05:46:35 GMT

There is no way to do this automatically. You have to manually draw lines where you want 'pop' of the kind you mention.

However, I have never done this in 12 years of using ARCHICAD. I have found that use of correct element pen weights, vectorial material fills, distance, and, if appropriate, shadows and material colours, give my elevations all the depth and life they need. And I don't have to manually update lines when the model changes.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

David Maudlin — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 13:52:03 GMT

dv_chris wrote:
I'm looking for people's thoughts about backlining ELEVATIONS.

I have used the Polyline Tool to outline parts of the building, very similar to a heavier outline when hand drafting. Yes, it needs editing when the model changes (not automatic), but I haven't seen a way to get the computer to think the way I do on this issue. Some elements/parts inside the overall outline need emphasis, but it is not based only on depth in the elevation. I have the Elevation Lines on their own layer, so I can lock the other layers and use the Marquee Tool for editing of the Polylines, which makes it fairly quick. This is just for Elevations, I have not needed to do this for Sections. Some large scale Details also benefit from this treatment.

David

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

KeesW — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 00:55:51 GMT

I agree with Svenl. Archicad's elevations produced with the standard settings, are dull and undifferentiated. Sections are a bit better, but art has not been a priority and creating defaults. I am showing my age and manual drafting underpinnings, aren't I?

The Aus AC19 template is clever, academically contrived but produces awful outputs. It is based on an international template (so I've been told) and others might find the same. Colours are used to distinguish elements and materials on the screen, rather than printing. It uses 0.13, 0.18 pens thicknesses for slabs, beams and stairs, and 0.35 for annotation and curtain walls. Completion screwed up! Important items are given minuscule line weights and drawings are dominated by annotation. One can create decent drawings by ignoring the defaults but it is quite labour intensive to override the underlying logic with new pen colours and thicknesses. Pens and colours are integrated with default material and composite selections.

One can override elevation outlines with thicker lines but these are hard to manage in the default template. If one is going to ignore the template, it is useful to create a revised pen set with the first 10 pens set as 0.1 to 1.0 thicknesses. One can make these all black, or use colours to distinguish them on the screen if you don't work in 'true line weight' screen view settings.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Erwin Edel — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 11:59:17 GMT

You can set the 'uncut line' pen for walls, slabs, roofs etc to something bold, but that's all the uncut lines it generates, so not just the outer outline.

You could probably get really clever with model views (hide all openings), layercombinations (hide the layers of elements you do not want bold), make an extra elevation and set it to override the projection pen to the thickness you want (or just use two pen sets). Overlay two linked drawings on your layout. It seems like a lot of work, but will be more automatic than polylines.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:49:29 GMT

Hi, I was reading this post, cause I'm having the same issue here, I wanted to refine the pens in an elevation.
And this is one of the reasons why I Submit this wish:
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=51595

Something like this would help a lot, imaging just overwrite the uncut pen for every element only for this view.
Or something else will be adding more distant area levels to sections and elevations.

Anyway, what I'm doing is making a worksheet of the elevation and because is converted to 2D I have more control over pens and I'm changing there the pens, and when the model change I update the worksheet and again change the pens. (Yes is also painful but that's a solution by now)
And I'm showing my worksheet as my Elevation.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:38:54 GMT

arqrivas wrote:
Anyway, what I'm doing is making a worksheet of the elevation and because is converted to 2D I have more control over pens and I'm changing there the pens, and when the model change I update the worksheet and again change the pens. (Yes is also painful but that's a solution by now)
And I'm showing my worksheet as my Elevation.

I can't see how this would be any easier than changing a polyline outline. But I do like your ideas for changing display in specific views. Thought about that years ago.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:58:01 GMT

Yeah, I think you're right s2art, probably changing outline is easier than my technique (is really time consuming:cry: ). And that's exactly why I came to see if I could find some help here. Actually, I'm going to try the Polyline outline in a project that is coming soon.

PD: But probably I'll get the polylines from my worksheet and paste it into the elevation...

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Bruce — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 21:20:51 GMT

If you're going to polyline in a worksheet, why not just leave them in the worksheet? That way, you can trace & reference in your elevation, which makes selection of the polyline to edit a lot easier.

Re: How to get good looking line hierarchy in sections &

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:17:20 GMT

I've been using archicad since version 6.0 (1999 or so), from a background of manual drafting and (briefly) 2d CAD (autocad).
My experience is that archicad documentation can easily be produced to match the "clarity" of manual drafting (manual referring to both hand drawing and 2d CAD).

Having said that, the main issue I have encountered is with clients/collaborators/employers who are used to alternative workflows who get hung up on the appearance of drawings rather more than legibility/clarity. There may be certain "styles" which are not readily replicable, however for the substantially increased functionality (3d documents, generated sections, integrated linking of the various drawing types due to the BIM process etc. etc. etc., compromising on strictness of drawing "style" represents better value in terms of time and cost.