topic Re: Enlarged plans in Documentation

Enlarged plans

Ugljesa Janjic — Thu, 06 Feb 2025 11:19:13 GMT

How do I create a bubble for an enlarged bathroom plan and then drag that detail to the sheet? I can't seem to be able to use the detail tool for a live enlarged plan. It copies only lines and explodes it all.
Revit does this without a problem. Is there a trick to it?
Thanks.
Ugljesa

Re: Enlarged plans

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 05:57:34 GMT

Here is a fairly detailed method of what I and many others do.
You can use a white masking fill in you large scale text layer then you don't need the 2 separate views to place as drawings in your layouts.
But you will be forever playing with the display order pushing some elements back and pulling others forward.

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=182148

One day we might get live details and worksheets.

Barry.

Re: Enlarged plans

Erich — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:23:25 GMT

I work slightly differently than Barry.

I use specific layers for annotation for specific purposes (floor plan, reflected ceiling,electrical, structural, etc.) So if I need an enlarged plan, I will have a layer for those notes separate from any others. Then I will set up a view at the enlarged scale that uses the layer combination that includes the notes for the enlarged plan.

This view can then be placed on a layout and cropped as necessary. Back in your main floor plan, I would then place a linked detail bubble that references the previously placed enlarged plan.

This way, you have a completely live enlarged plan that is easy to work on and is nicely referenced in your drawing set.

Re: Enlarged plans

dcerezo — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 14:19:14 GMT

We are relatively new to ArchiCAD, having come over from Revit, but this issue with Enlarged Plans and Details is really making us regret making the switch. The time it takes to do unit plans, enlarged bathroom and kitchen plans, enlarged stair plans, and corresponding annotations is insane.

What used to take us maybe 5 min tops, per unit plan, in Revit, is taking us like an hour in ArchiCAD because we have to create this layer or that, shut that one off, create a layer combination for this...it's ridiculous.

My question to all of those folks who have been using ArchiCAD for a long time is....really...is there no easier way?

Re: Enlarged plans

alemanda — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 05:54:16 GMT

Erich wrote:
I work slightly differently than Barry.

I use specific layers for annotation for specific purposes (floor plan, reflected ceiling,electrical, structural, etc.) So if I need an enlarged plan, I will have a layer for those notes separate from any others. Then I will set up a view at the enlarged scale that uses the layer combination that includes the notes for the enlarged plan.

This view can then be placed on a layout and cropped as necessary. Back in your main floor plan, I would then place a linked detail bubble that references the previously placed enlarged plan.

This way, you have a completely live enlarged plan that is easy to work on and is nicely referenced in your drawing set.

I use the Erich Method.

@dcerezo: once you get the logic behind Archicad you will forget the others, even though some aspects and tools can be strongly enhanced and improved

Re: Enlarged plans

Erwin Edel — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:09:41 GMT

dcerezo wrote:
We are relatively new to ArchiCAD, having come over from Revit, but this issue with Enlarged Plans and Details is really making us regret making the switch. The time it takes to do unit plans, enlarged bathroom and kitchen plans, enlarged stair plans, and corresponding annotations is insane.

What used to take us maybe 5 min tops, per unit plan, in Revit, is taking us like an hour in ArchiCAD because we have to create this layer or that, shut that one off, create a layer combination for this...it's ridiculous.

My question to all of those folks who have been using ArchiCAD for a long time is....really...is there no easier way?

Hi, using archicad for quite some time (since 2006). We have our model related output up to 1:50 scale, with very little 2D patching needed. 99% of 2D work there is annotation. We do use complex profiled walls / beams a lot to get connection details to show nicely in a 1:50 detail setting.

We then have 2D details 1:5 scale on A3 sheets. These are just independent details that make heavy use of smart 2D objects provided by our local library (at least in part I think) and some of our own 2D objects and just plain fills / linework.

Schedules of doors/windows with some 2D annotation / patching for where the door/window objects fall short of the end result.

Sometimes I do a 1:20 scale hybrid 3D / 2D enlarged plan for a steel stair case or similar things, but this is not a common thing in most projects for us.

We do about 70% of our work for new residential (villa) ranging from about 800 m³ to 2000 m³. Some renovation work (large scale renovation for residential) and some odd balls like a school or commercial / industrial bring up the other 30%. We do all building documentation from initial draft to construction, however things like structural engineering and MEP are outsourced (which I believe is fairly common, at least in NL).

I've never worked with Revit, so I can't really compare, however I don't feel like ArchiCAD forced us in to this workflow. I guess it all depends on how detailed you feel your documentation needs to go. This might be different for other fields of work to what our office is doing.

Re: Enlarged plans

Richard Morrison — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 18:42:43 GMT

alemanda wrote:
I use the Erich Method.

I do, too. I don't see how this method would take even the 5 minutes that Revit would.

Re: Enlarged plans

dcerezo — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 04:12:00 GMT

Thanks for the feedback guys, but perhaps I should go into a bit more detail so you can see why this is frustrating for us.

1. If we were doing one house or something like that, where we had a kitchen on the east side and bathroom on the west, and we wanted to do enlarged plans for those two areas...no problem.
2. Our situation is much more complex. We are designing 4 homes in a tight urban lot here in L.A. and each one is completely different from the other.
3. The separation between units is 12".
4. Each home is 3 stories.

We show each home 3 times:

1. Overall Plans - 1/8" scale. which show all the homes as they sit next to each other. Just large dimensions, not a lot of details.
2. Unit Plans - 1/4" scale. Full annotations, keynotes, etc, etc. We show all 3 floors plus the roof one ONE sheet. The contractors like this, as we do, because there is no flipping sheets on the job site. You see one entire unit, all floors, on one sheet.
3. Enlarged Plans - 1/2" or 1" (depends). Full annotations as required. Remember, each unit is different so we have to show various kitchens, bathrooms, etc.

Here is how we did this in Revit.

1. Draw a "marquee" if you will in the shape of the unit. A few clicks.
2. Create a view at a larger scale. One click.
3. Now I'm in that larger view, all objects are 3D and live, bi-directional, and I can annotate away. I don't see anything outside the marquee...i.e. the unit next door. I can tag windows, doors, etc.

To do the same thing in ArchiCAD, we could do 2 things (however, I think there's a 3rd we just discovered)

1. Detail view. The problem here is that these are all 2D elements. I can't tag the windows. I can't tag the doors. I can't tag zones, etc. Rebuilding is a pain and what if we forget. Plus lots of stuff re-sets when you Rebuild.
2. So we went with the Live View route that Barry showed. But we had to create sooooo many layers. Such a pain in the a**. We had to create Dimension layers for each unit, wall type tags for each unit, etc. AGAIN, the reason is because I just create one dimension layer, the dimensions from Unit B show on Unit A's enlarged plan....because they're only 12" apart.

We may have a 3rd way...what do you guys think....and why has no one mentioned this before? We are using the marquee tool to create a 3D Document floor plan. This seems to be working really well. Everything is live. You only see what we margueed. We don't have to create a ton of layers either. This seems promising.

I've attached some progress images from the project we're literally working on right now so you can see what I mean.

I don't know, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but this seems like a lot of hassle for something that I know is done super simply in that other software.

Anyway, can't wait for your thoughts.

Re: Enlarged plans

Richard Morrison — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 16:41:11 GMT

Although AC doesn't have those marqueed views that Revit apparently has, a few tips may help:

1) You should check into hotlinked modules, and keep each unit as a separate module. Tracy Stone Architects did a free webinar for the Archicaduser site for just this situation, and has a interesting workflow that may be helpful. https://archicaduser.com/ Each unit is a separate module, which has its own "master" layer, and the units are composited together for the final documents. The units can be in separate files, or on separate stories in the same file, if you wish.

2) If seeing dimensions from a neighboring unit is annoying for the final documents, you can just reshape the view windows on the Layout to cut them off.

3) You can save zoomed views, not only in the View Map, but also as a separate named zoom for working purposes, which may be faster.

Re: Enlarged plans

dcerezo — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 20:04:15 GMT

We will look into the module option for sure, and of course we'll check out the Tracy Stone webinar.

FYI, changing the shape of the layout doesn't work 100% because wall tags from other units often overlap and are impossible to hide, so we created 4 wall tag layers...one for each unit.

Thanks as always.

Re: Enlarged plans

Barry Kelly — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 01:18:54 GMT

I don't use wall tags so I am not sure if you need separate layers for those.
If they are for display only at your larger scale then I can't see why not just have them in the large scale annotation layer.

I use an annotation layer for my standard scale (1:100) plans - in fact i have 2 as I sometimes like to separate text and dimensions - but one layer works just as well.
Then I have one annotation layer for my larger scale plans (1:50) which has all text and dimensions.
Yes it will overlap the plans and doesn't look correct until you save the separate views (model with no text and text only) and combine and crop them on a layout.

When you have 2 rooms next to each other and you want separate large scale layouts, I then create a second annotation layer and a new view for just that annotation layer.
Should you have 3 rooms next to each other then create a third annotation layer.
I have not had reason to go beyond 3 layers and views - but you could if you want to.
Then on the layouts you just decide which annotation view to use on top of the cropped base plan.

Back when I started using this method we did not have 3D documents.
If this works for you then that is a perfectly good method.
But don't you lose the symbolic display of object - in particular door swings?
Can you get the 3D Document plan to look the same as your standard floor plan?
I must say I really haven't played with 3D Documents in respect to working drawing plans.

Barry.

Re: Enlarged plans

dcerezo — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 18:44:01 GMT

Hey Barry,

It looks like we're choosing which is the best way to skin the cat. Right now we're really liking the 3D Documents option. For doors, we're selecting the option to show it open in 3D that shows the door leaf open. Then we just add an arc line for the swing. Graphic Overrides pretty much takes care of the rest.

So far, we haven't found a hitch with the 3D document route. But who knows where it will go.

Re: Enlarged plans

Barry Kelly — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 00:59:08 GMT

dcerezo wrote:
It looks like we're choosing which is the best way to skin the cat.

That's Archicad for you.

dcerezo wrote:
Right now we're really liking the 3D Documents option. For doors, we're selecting the option to show it open in 3D that shows the door leaf open. Then we just add an arc line for the swing. Graphic Overrides pretty much takes care of the rest.

I think that is the biggest problem - the plan is not a symbolic view like a real 2D plan.

dcerezo wrote:
So far, we haven't found a hitch with the 3D document route. But who knows where it will go.

If it works for what you want then that is perfect.
For the method I use, I have all of the layers and layer combinations and views set up in my template.
Then it is just a case of adding the drawings (views) to the layouts (also already in the template), cropping them and overlaying them.
It doesn't take any extra time o effort at all once set up.

Barry.

Re: Enlarged plans

Ignacio Azpiazu — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 20:50:07 GMT

dcerezo wrote:
To do the same thing in ArchiCAD, we could do 2 things (however, I think there's a 3rd we just discovered)
1. Detail view. The problem here is that these are all 2D elements. I can't tag the windows. I can't tag the doors. I can't tag zones, etc. Rebuilding is a pain and what if we forget. Plus lots of stuff re-sets when you Rebuild.
2. So we went with the Live View route that Barry showed. But we had to create sooooo many layers. Such a pain in the a**. We had to create Dimension layers for each unit, wall type tags for each unit, etc. AGAIN, the reason is because I just create one dimension layer, the dimensions from Unit B show on Unit A's enlarged plan....because they're only 12" apart.

We may have a 3rd way...what do you guys think....and why has no one mentioned this before? We are using the marquee tool to create a 3D Document floor plan.

[As a general principle: whenever something is requiring too much labor, it means you are not using the program right. Lots of people have been using the program for decades for much larger projects.]

You don't need to create layers for each unit. You need 'enlarged' layers for dimensions, annotations, perhaps 2D work if you have any, etc. So that you have say A-FLOR-DIMS for 1/8" dimensions, and A-FLOR-ENLG-DIMS for those that need to show at 1/4". (Normally, they are two independent sets, and you don't want 1/8" dims showing at all in 1/4" drawings. But that goes according to your preference.) You need a single wall tags layer, if you want a specific layer for wall tags instead of including them in say A-FLOR-ENLG-ANNO.

And you need a say 'Enlarged Plans' or '1/4" Plans" view, showing the layers you want to show, with Model View Options and Graphic Override Combinations finetuned for that view. Doors, wall layers, their 'hatches', etc., will show the way you want them to show on your 1/4" plan.

I understand that you have your four homes in a single file. So you just click on that Enlarged Plan view and do your 1/4" scale stuff, so that you are seeing what you are getting (or you could have say a 'drafting' view, with everything transparent so that overlap drafting mistakes become obvious, etc.). You move along the whole plan, copy-paste notes or extract-inject across the whole plan.

Now you want to create four 'enlarged plan' drawings out of that, one for each house. Drawings are just a cropped area of that overall view, in which you can change Pen Set and other options. For each drawing, you drag your view to a Layout, and drag the drawing edges to wherever you want in order to 'crop' it. Those are live drawings, unless you set them to update manually (which is my preference in larger projects). If you have some office-standard drawing title, etc., and for some reason your new drawing is showing some Archicad standard look or whatever, you option click on your good-looking drawing and inject on the new one you just created. That's it. All information is in 'modelspace', views are specific definitions of how that information need to look, and drawings are cropped areas of those views with some additional graphic control and title-etc. elements.

This is really basic stuff. You would save a lot of time and money and headaches by having some hours a week of someone experienced looking over your shoulder, or over Skype screen share, if you don't want to go through the manuals. Also purchasing one of the templates available out there helps a lot, as a starting point and as a sort of demonstration of how everything comes together, if the out-of-the-box Archicad setup is not clear or elaborate enough for that.

Re: Enlarged plans

Erwin Edel — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 09:24:37 GMT

If it comes down to having an existing dimension string on two layers a simple 'drag a copy' and reassigning layer to the dimension string is all it takes.

We have information and text/dimension layers for 4 different scales and for generic (shown in all scales) for 2D annotation and in rare cases a bit of linework where ArchiCAD fails to make a correct connection.

Re: Enlarged plans

dcerezo — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 18:34:02 GMT

Hi Ignacio,

Thank you for the in depth response, but I'm not sure if you understood what my issue was, but nevertheless, it was interesting to learn how you do it and how it could help us. Thanks!

Re: Enlarged plans

Ignacio Azpiazu — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 18:56:27 GMT

dcerezo, what I explained, or attempted to give you a glimpse of, is not “how I do it” but how the program works; the most important content in my message was the last paragraph. You must be burning an awful lot of man hours. I did what I could.

Re: Enlarged plans

Professor Pickle — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 21:07:44 GMT

dcerezo wrote:
We are relatively new to ArchiCAD, having come over from Revit, but this issue with Enlarged Plans and Details is really making us regret making the switch. The time it takes to do unit plans, enlarged bathroom and kitchen plans, enlarged stair plans, and corresponding annotations is insane.

What used to take us maybe 5 min tops, per unit plan, in Revit, is taking us like an hour in ArchiCAD because we have to create this layer or that, shut that one off, create a layer combination for this...it's ridiculous.

My question to all of those folks who have been using ArchiCAD for a long time is....really...is there no easier way?

I hear your pain. I've come over to ArchiCAD from a decade of Revit. There are some things about AC that are great and then there are some that are just retarded. I can't believe that they call themselves BIM leaders. No live details, no ability to do plan callouts, no ability to create sections anywhere (Yes, I want to create sections of sections of sections if that makes my job easier). Everything takes dozens of clicks to accomplish. And don't even get me started on the antiquated parameteric modelling solution - GDL. Revit's family modelling and type based parametrics are simply superior (but what about file size, blah blah blah, who cares get a better computer...)

Revit has its flaws, there are many some incredibly frustrating, but in my opinion it is a much better BIM solution.

Now that this rant is over, let's get live details please. And by that I mean detail callouts that just show the underlying 3D model, not a trace reference but the actual model. You can keep the current behaviour too if you wish but at least make the new behaviour possible. Please. That would be the single best improvement to AC right now.

Re: Enlarged plans

Richard Morrison — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 23:25:56 GMT

You might want to explore 3D documents more thoroughly, as well as tutorials by Tim Ball, who uses live details extensively. e.g. or

Re: Enlarged plans

Professor Pickle — Tue, 05 Nov 2019 02:38:26 GMT

Thanks for that. It definitely is a very attractive workflow. Modelling everything in 3D is not always the most practical but the payoff is always there, i.e. sections, elevations etc look the way they should.

As I get more proficient and have more freedom with how I run projects at work I will definitely shift towards this workflow. Thanks again for reminding me of this.