topic Re: Details aren't "live" in Documentation

Details aren't "live"

Anonymous — Tue, 30 May 2023 10:26:12 GMT

Hello,
First post to this forum, new(ish) Archicad user (longtime Revit user).

I'm trying to find out how to do a detail callout that is "live" so that when the wall section changes, the detail also changes (this is supposed to be BIM after all).

I've created a composite wall (see screenshots) and an intersecting floor. I've done nothing with the Priority Based Connections or assigning priorities to anything.

In Revit, if you create a callout of something (plan or section), all of the model elements are "live" and actually show the modeled items. It appears in the callout that I've created, everything has been changed to linework.

What am I missing?

JM

Re: Details aren't "live"

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 04 Dec 2014 22:22:45 GMT

You are not missing anything and this is one of the cases that Revit is better. On AC though this can be done with the following workflow.

-----
To Keep it live

• Use the section tool to create a section at the point you want the detail, you will need to define the section limits for both Height (in the settings) and depth on the floor plan
• This section will be placed on a layer that you will turn off so that it does not show on the floor plans.
• Place the section on the Layout
• the Detail tool will be used as a "Linked Detail" that will get the information from the drawing, number and sheet.

-----
Alternatively the other way to work with the Detail tool is that if the model changes then you need to force a "Manual Update" using the 'Rebuild from Model" option.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 04:41:15 GMT

Eduardo's proposed solution is probably your best shot.
Unfortunately it will work only for section.
You still will not be able to make enlarged Floor Plan details that are live. Those will still be static and need to be updated.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Barry Kelly — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 05:00:02 GMT

laszlonagy wrote:
You still will not be able to make enlarged Floor Plan details that are live. Those will still be static and need to be updated.

You can if you create a new floor plan view and change it to a larger scale.
The problem is that although completely 'live' it is the entire plan and not just a cropped area.
However you can place this view as a drawing in your layout and crop it there.

If you want to show annotation outside of your cropped area it is possible to place two drawings on top of each other - each with different layers.
One has the main plan but no text - the other has just the text only that suits the larger scale plan.
Then each can be cropped independently of each other.
See this post for more detail.

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=182238

Barry.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 06:37:25 GMT

Yes, I know this is a solution, but not as elegant as the "other" one. Would be nice to have live Details/Worksheets in ArchiCAD too.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Barry Kelly — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 02:04:36 GMT

laszlonagy wrote:
Yes, I know this is a solution, but not as elegant as the "other" one.

I know you do but I just wanted to make sure others do to.

laszlonagy wrote:
Would be nice to have live Details/Worksheets in ArchiCAD too.

I completely agree.

Barry.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 07:21:51 GMT

Barry wrote:
laszlonagy wrote:
Yes, I know this is a solution, but not as elegant as the "other" one.
I know you do but I just wanted to make sure others do to.

Barry.

Oh, OK, sometimes I have to remember that something that is "addressed to me" is not necessarily addressed to me.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 15:56:14 GMT

Thanks for the replies.

This isn't a great workflow, it's not BIM. Hopefully AC can adapt soon.

Re: Details aren't "live"

alemanda — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 07:41:17 GMT

I think that not live details is a pro in most of cases.
That's because I think that details are produced when the general design is completed so that you don't need a really live details ...
at the end it is always possible to update the details ... one by one ... but it is always possible.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Barry Kelly — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 08:25:25 GMT

My wish is that details and worksheets were live with the model with the option to change them to 'Drawing' just like we can now with sections and elevations (that's why I use sections for details).

Barry.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 11 Dec 2014 23:02:57 GMT

Barry wrote:
My wish is that details and worksheets were live with the model with the option to change them to 'Drawing' just like we can now with sections and elevations (that's why I use sections for details).

Barry.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Anonymous — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 18:33:38 GMT

Barry wrote:
My wish is that details and worksheets were live with the model with the option to change them to 'Drawing' just like we can now with sections and elevations (that's why I use sections for details).

Barry.

The way that this works in Revit is that the model is always live (sections, details [plan or section]). Any "annotation" that you put in those views (including detail items like a 2x member for example), stays there as the model updates live. What is great about that is that you can use the sections/details to check the design and back and forth. Make a change in the model, check the detail and modify as needed or detail in a different way as a response to the model.

I know that this gets into how much you "model" versus how much "dumb" linework you do which is more architectural depiction philosophy versus software.

Thanks again.

Re: Details aren't "live"

rgarand — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 19:30:17 GMT

I tend to "regen from model" with my details...sure it is an extra step and it is not considered live, but seems to work just fine. Revit may be live, but you still need to update all of your 2D items accordingly.

When I start modeling this much detail I tend to ask myself if I really need it and if the budget can take the hit.

Re: Details aren't "live"

DGSketcher — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 09:27:16 GMT

I don't see the benefit of live details. The level of detail in the model is usually far from being accurate enough for say a 1:5 detail with fixings, membranes and complex manufacturers profiles. In my workflow I use the detail tool to create the basic line work, adapt it to suit and if necessary use the trace option to check any changes in the live source.

I agree it would be useful to keep a detail live while the drawing set is being developed but I would definitely want to be able to break the link once additional 2D information is added.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 19:50:56 GMT

DGSketcher wrote:
I don't see the benefit of live details. The level of detail in the model is usually far from being accurate enough for say a 1:5 detail with fixings, membranes and complex manufacturers profiles. In my workflow I use the detail tool to create the basic line work, adapt it to suit and if necessary use the trace option to check any changes in the live source.

I agree it would be useful to keep a detail live while the drawing set is being developed but I would definitely want to be able to break the link once additional 2D information is added.

Re: Details aren't "live"

Professor Pickle — Fri, 01 Nov 2019 01:38:44 GMT

DGSketcher wrote:
I don't see the benefit of live details. The level of detail in the model is usually far from being accurate enough for say a 1:5 detail with fixings, membranes and complex manufacturers profiles. In my workflow I use the detail tool to create the basic line work, adapt it to suit and if necessary use the trace option to check any changes in the live source.

I agree it would be useful to keep a detail live while the drawing set is being developed but I would definitely want to be able to break the link once additional 2D information is added.

-1

I think that you are confusing level of detail with model accuracy. If your model is not accurate then what's the point to it in the first place? A wall must be placed in the exact location in your model. It is paramount that it's not even a millimeter out. On the other hand, what that wall has inside of it is up to you and you can show it in your details views by tracing over the live model. So you don't have to model everything but you have to be accurate.

Having a live model is extremely useful as any changes in the model immediately stand out in your detail views as your 2D details no longer line up with the live model.

Your model is the canonical source of truth for the project. Everything else is subordinate to the model. That is the nature of BIM. Note, that you don't have to subscribe to this philosophy 😉

Re: Details aren't "live"

DGSketcher — Fri, 01 Nov 2019 09:37:53 GMT

Tom, Much has changed since that was written 5 years ago! AC and computing power continue to evolve but from an AC development perspective, as was mentioned by others in this thread, there is an underlying need for Details & Worksheets to have a controllable Auto-Rebuild option. If nothing else it would at least bring AC in line with some other software.

I believe your philosophy is sound.

Re: Details aren't "live"

DGSketcher — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:47:22 GMT

Just a suggestion, as I have only recently discovered the option, but live details on plan are technically available via "3D document from plan". Be interested to hear the +ve & -ve experiences of anyone who has already tried or is using the workflow?

Re: Details aren't "live"

JaseBee — Tue, 05 Nov 2019 02:31:42 GMT

I've tried the 'Live Details' method just for a personal project @DGSketcher, not for a full set of documentation drawings.

I thought it was good because you could set up a bunch of them at critical positions around your project and keep flicking back to them as the project evolves to check how things are lining up and interacting.

I used unlinked detail markers for keeping track of where the marquees were placed for redefining 3D view positions as elements moved. (also utilised limited view sections for vertical plane details)

Problems encountered were:
Little bit of time and effort involved in setup and repositioning if required (especially with using unlinked markers to keep track of things)
Automatic back referencing can't be achieved
Doesn't work well with clone folders (view map gets pretty big and redundant pretty quick)

on the whole I liked it, if i were calling the shots i'd put a bit more effort into utilising it for projects.

I think the instant feedback of how your connections are working is invaluable.

Re: Details aren't "live"

DGSketcher — Tue, 05 Nov 2019 03:22:50 GMT

Thanks, I have similar findings. Depending on graphic requirements in some ways it is clearer, in others it can’t match a standard projected 2D plan with door swing opening marks. The biggest benefit for me is not having to hit rebuild and find all my dimensions & labels become static in my details. The other big help is correctly displaying roof framing layouts with a correct z order projection, no more messing around with the display order moving beams below rafters etc.