topic Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt in Documentation

DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

rob2218 — Mon, 22 May 2023 21:53:15 GMT

Why does this happen so ofter (rhetorical)?

I work with various (ahem) "architects" who swear up and down that they have worked in Archicad for the last 10 years. I'm not sure why but almost every (ahem) "architect" I've dealt with has a BAD BAD habit of NOT wanting to see the truth in how they layout their buildings. It seems "most" (not all but a LARGE LARGE percentage) of them just don't want to draw accurately.

It seems they'd rather "dull down" their dimensions tolerances and then wonder why their slabs just aren't quite right or why their walls from story to story just don't line up right or why their walls are just not quite orthogonal?.....

How can I FIX so-called "architects" who have been (ahem) working in Archicad for 10 years of their bad habit?
What do you suggest? I've tried to be polite. I've tried to be PC about it.....but nothing I do or say gets thru to them with regards to drawing more accurately. I've tried to tutor them on a one-to-one approach....but they just rather FAKE their dimensions and their layout work-flow rather than DRAW CORRECTLY D$%M IT!

Dunno...I'm at the end of my wits here.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

DGSketcher — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 08:16:52 GMT

At least you can display the error. It's even more entertaining when they manually override the dimension to a static figure...

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

gpowless — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 10:39:23 GMT

What I find equally annoying are those that were taught using AutoCAD using hotspots to dimension to. They don't care about the accuracy of their drawings because they simplpy fudge the dimensions by moving the hotspots!

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

rob2218 — Mon, 15 Jul 2019 16:56:47 GMT

That's messed up. Yes, I too have heard many a times...."Oh, I know what I'm doing on the computer cause I was (ahem) 'self-taugh'".........................LOUD BUZZER SOUND GOES OFF MAKING A "WROOOOONG ANSWER" sound.

Geez, I tell you, some folks, and I'm sure you've run into them and have yer own stories to tell, should never be let NEAR a PC.

I had on tell, just recently, "I'm a big ideas kinda guy, I'm not a production guy"................Well, then, if you can't create designs or drawings correctly "IN" Archicad, let me do it for you. Trust me the drawings will LOOK 1000% better and I'll save you money in the long-run.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

Lingwisyer — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 01:25:44 GMT

Big ideas? Sounds like they should be working on paper rather than within the limitations of a software...

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 10:30:46 GMT

I'm guilty of that. When you design on the 3d model is very easy to think you got it right in the point, but in reality theres another object you don't see that's giving the reference...so it ends up with little deviations. When I notice the error, it consumes some time to put it correctly.---But I do not force it! I correct it!

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

rob2218 — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 18:24:30 GMT

well...at least you know well enough to correct the error.
Most of the architects I deal with just don't give rats A$%$@ how they draw or do layout of design elements...they just want to PLOW IT down and let someone else worry about why it's not right later....bad idea.

That's ok, keep doing that architects cause you keep me gainfully employed to fix all yer errors.....so please, carry on.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

Erwin Edel — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 08:16:25 GMT

I try to explain that it takes one small extra step to put something at a round accurate dimension, but it takes a ton of steps to fix incremental errors that start from one element being put 'about right'.

Billable hours are also not part of big ideas sadly.

I'm ussually the one starting off from the original sketch ideas (scanned hand drawing), this gives the project a good start at least.

Sloppy drafting is very annoying and unprofessional. I've hated it since I started drawing in CAD back in university.

I get that you guesstimate an initial position when you are working out some design, but just check the dimension and fix it after you've plopped something in to place.

No idea how this works out with inches, but with our mm I keep my drawing units at 1 decimal so I can spot right away that something is just dropped in place randomly by looking at the coordinates feedback in tracker and coordinates palette.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

rob2218 — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:20:09 GMT

Archicad can only go down to a 1/64th inch tolerance...but here's the kicker...if you have two lines, walls, whatever and you move them 1/128th of an inch apart....Archicad wont register it as any movement.

In autocad...it had a higher tolerance level, at 1/256th of an inch but WTF draws at that tolerance.

But, I agree, "sloppy design and even more so sloppy drafting" is a hassle.

That's why I'm known as "Mr. Wolf-The Cleaner" (remember Pulp Fiction). "I'm sorry if I was curt with you but I think fast, I think on my feet...so let's get a move on boys....pretty please with sugar on top"..................

Again, NO, absolutely NO reason to be sloppy when you have a tool that can place objects so accurately.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

David Maudlin — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 12:11:05 GMT

rob2218 wrote:
Archicad can only go down to a 1/64th inch tolerance...

You can set the Working Units to Feet & Decimal Inches to 3 places (1/1000"), which makes it easier to spot these errors.

David

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

rob2218 — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 17:31:32 GMT

That's a good tip David.
Still need to get something out to you sir.
I've been tied up. "Life gets in the way" as my brother whom I care about very much, always likes to say.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

Erwin Edel — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 08:58:17 GMT

Decimal inches sounds about as what I have going with mm with 1 decimal.

If you have the coordinates palette open (I have it docked at bottom of the screen), you get instant feedback when you highlight corners or edges of elements.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

rob2218 — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:32:09 GMT

thank you.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

KeesW — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 03:56:07 GMT

Metric is much better. We draw to 1mm accuracy which is 1/25 inch. Builders here only build to within 5 or so mm, and joiners might work to 1mm. So why build to 1/64” unless US builders have been trained as brain surgeons! What tolerances do you get building materials such as framing?

The trick to draw accurately is work between designated points, intersections and surfaces rather than to specific dimensions.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

DGSketcher — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 10:28:57 GMT

I do detailing where the dimensioning system can fail due to rounding. It depends what you are working on but some of my drawings need to be accurate to the millimetre. As a simple example, a chain of dimensions 50.3mm + 50.3mm will illustrate to the millimetre as 50mm + 50mm BUT if you then dimension the overall line length which would be 100.6mm it will be rounded up to 101mm. So you then have to explain why 50 + 50 = 101 to the end user. OK there are many fixes, but some of them fall into the categories which are considered bad practice that started this thread in the first place.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

Wookie — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 08:57:16 GMT

The main problem is that dimensions in Archicad just aren’t prominent enough. Take Solidworks for example, it’s dimensioning and ease of use of the dimension tool takes pride and place, everything you do revolves around it, as it should in a cad / 3D modeler. Archicad’s dimensions are barely visible, and very difficult to change / track after you have set them. They’re pretty terrible tbh and quite obscure, which is bad considering that everything should be focused around the dimensions. And so, it forces this sloppyness from the user making it someone else’s problem later on. It’s the one thing about Archicad that needs a serious overhaul IMO.

Anyone can model a house, but designing one that is dimensionally sound and ready to build is the mark of a true architect. I really want to love Archicad but I keep going back to Solidworks based on the dimensioning alone.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

DGSketcher — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 10:01:29 GMT

I don't think this is just a software issue, it is an education issue for users. I have to work from various architects drawings and there is a clear division between those who understand the construction process and those who just happily click on their drawings to add dimensions they think might be useful. The latest one to cross my desk had external perimeter dimensions and internal dimensions but the external wall thicknesses were not defined so there was no way to tie the inside to outside. 🤔 There needs to be a shift towards producing drawings dimensioning the core/structural/grid elements which will help identify continuity of load lines and fix the building layout. This isn't structural design, it is common sense to explain to the engineer/builder how the designer thinks the building structure should function.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

Laszlo Nagy — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 12:44:10 GMT

@DGSketcher wrote:
As a simple example, a chain of dimensions 50.3mm + 50.3mm will illustrate to the millimetre as 50mm + 50mm BUT if you then dimension the overall line length which would be 100.6mm it will be rounded up to 101mm. So you then have to explain why 50 + 50 = 101 to the end user. OK there are many fixes, but some of them fall into the categories which are considered bad practice that started this thread in the first place.

How would you suggest such a rounding situation should be handled by Archicad?

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

Laszlo Nagy — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 12:47:13 GMT

@Wookie wrote:

The main problem is that dimensions in Archicad just aren’t prominent enough. Take Solidworks for example, it’s dimensioning and ease of use of the dimension tool takes pride and place, everything you do revolves around it, as it should in a cad / 3D modeler.

Could you show a few examples of why you think Solidworks dimensions are much better?

I do not know Solidworks at all, so this I am genuinely interested in the answer.

Re: DIMENSION TOLERANCES - these guys can't seem to get it straignt

DGSketcher — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 14:47:09 GMT

@Laszlo Nagy Professionally! 😉

I don't think AC is wrong, I was pointing out what can happen with detailed dimensions. This really is a case of user education and judgement. If the 100.6mm is correct, the dimension display settings should reflect this. Basically, we should be modelling to the displayable dimension tolerance. This is why we have decimals & extra accuracy display options in the Project Preferences>Dimension Settings.