topic Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins in Documentation

Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Anonymous — Fri, 19 May 2023 13:22:48 GMT

Is it possible to override in plan the different skins of a composite wall or complex profile, or does the override apply to the entire composite or complex profile?

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Barry Kelly — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 03:34:27 GMT

You can set the criteria to find a particular fill used in the skin of a composite, but unfortunately any overrides will apply to the entire composite and not just that skin.

Barry.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Anonymous — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 03:50:06 GMT

Barry,

Thanks.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

runxel — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:39:20 GMT

There is a very dirty workaround. Might not be suitable for production...
But it works.

(Sorry for german text; easy to figure out, tho)

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Anonymous — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 14:57:04 GMT

Runxel,

Thank you. It is very interesting. I wonder if you could show how you created the override rule, and even if it is in German, someone may be able to explain it.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

runxel — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 15:20:57 GMT

Since you cant override the transparent pen (0), you would assign this pen to the background of a BMAT.
The GO itself is very easy. It's just overriding the background pen to blue (the fill is set to "Only background" obviously).

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Anonymous — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 17:17:27 GMT

Runxel,

Thanks for further explaining the override, but my question is how do you even select the individual skins in order to override them separately in the first place.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Barry Kelly — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 00:59:19 GMT

Cheikh wrote:
Runxel,

Thanks for further explaining the override, but my question is how do you even select the individual skins in order to override them separately in the first place.

You can't.
It still overrides all skins - just not those with a transparent background.

So all you can do is make sure the composite uses building materials that use cut fills that have a transparent background pen for all those skins you do not want to change.

Barry.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 01:53:52 GMT

Barry,

Got it. Thanks.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

squall_tmo — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 18:46:33 GMT

I know that my answer is a little stupid, and maybe a little late too, but why don't you "explode" your plan into a Worksheet?

this way you can create a rule to override the skin you want.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Anonymous — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 02:53:47 GMT

If you do that you no longer have 3D BIM elements to work with.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

squall_tmo — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:51:45 GMT

They are right on the plan!

that is a way to show just a skin overwritten...
But you are free to create a "fake skin" fill, or to replace the skin you want to override with another wall (similarly to the suggestion that GRAPHISOFT gave about adding an insulation skin)...I just think that this could be a faster solution.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Barry Kelly — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 01:25:16 GMT

squall_tmo wrote:
I know that my answer is a little stupid, and maybe a little late too, but why don't you "explode" your plan into a Worksheet?

this way you can create a rule to override the skin you want.

That is not a stupid idea at all.
The only problem with worksheets (and details) is they are not 100% live and will only update to match the model when you tell them too.
So as long as you are disciplined and remember to 'Rebuild from source view' your worksheets, this should work well.

Barry.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

runxel — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:49:48 GMT

You could also wiggle around with GO plus multiple pen sets.
It's tedious, tho, because it then works on a pen, rather than a material, and you would need different pen sets for every override-case.
(And you need different pens assigned at the Bmats as well, of course.)

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

zoli79 — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 13:03:14 GMT

runxel wrote:
There is a very dirty workaround. Might not be suitable for production...
But it works.

Reading this I gave GO another chance with showing rated walls and slabs, but the only thing you can control in a selective manner is the background pen override. If you'd like to have a GO rule with fill type override it will still apply to the whole structure.
What I need is to apply a different hatch to certain building materials that are in rated elements (walls, slabs etc.). Now we control this by many different building materials and composites (although in reality they are the same (e.g. different building material for each rating type of a wood framing), but the number of composite structures are getting out of hand in projects, not to mention the graphic quality isn't the best, because of chaotic intersections.

Does anyone know if Graphisoft is planning to give more options for graphic overrides at composites?

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Erwin Edel — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 13:14:11 GMT

You'll end up in workarounds, but if it happens to be the 'core' you want to override, you could make a view that shows only certain layers and only the core and then override what is happen there. Stack this view on top of your normal view on layout (two on top of eachother) so that you hide what you don't want to see. Works on paper and PDF, will look messy in DWG output.

I'd still work with different building materials if the actual material is different.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

zoli79 — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 13:27:00 GMT

Erwin wrote:
Stack this view on top of your normal view
[..]
I'd still work with different building materials if the actual material is different.

Yes, a double drawing on layout could be a solution. But I'd rather 2D anything than use double views. I had very bad experiences with stacked drawings, especially in larger teamwork projects with multiple users. Hard to manage, slow, someone forgets to move one of the drawings, not seeing the complete graphic output in one view etc.

The thing with building materials is that the actual material is the same. Ratings in reality apply to complete structures, not materials.
Edit: were you suggesting that I shouldn't use a different building material if the real material is the same? I'd love not to, that is the point and I'm currently looking into my options. Unfortunately GO isn't that magic wand yet, that many of us were hoping it is.

Re: Graphics Override of Composite Skins

Erwin Edel — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 13:52:22 GMT

Nah, I meant if you have say some brickwork with different properties, I'd make a building material for each different type and thus end up with different composites.

We use 2D linework with specific line types for things like firerating. It's not linked to the model, but much clearer than giving the wall a colour, I agree. We'd still give the wall a fire rating for IFC export, but just use some 2D work for drawing communication in permit stage.

User error is allways a factor to consider, but we have a long standing practice of checking up on documentation before shipping off, though I recognise not every office works the same