topic Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW? in Documentation

EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

rob2218 — Tue, 30 May 2023 08:03:34 GMT

see attached.
need to take some objects out, put them in a "demolition" filter phase, then that "hole" that is left I need to show it in plan/elevation/section that it's been filled in by a "NEW WALL'.....but I don't want to have to:
a) take out the window in demolition filter to then have to insert a 'hole' in exactly the same place in order to then...
b) fill that hole which will reside in the wall that stays as "existing"

there's got to be a better way to do this graphically.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Anonymous — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 22:30:33 GMT

rob,

you need to set the renovation overrides for each stage that you wish to show:
1 - existing: existing and demolished elements shown (override fills and pens), new elements hidden
2 - after demolition: existing elements shown, demolished elements hidden, new elements hidden
3 - proposed: exsiting elements shown (override fills and pens), demolished elements hidden, new elements shown

Note: the existing walls that will be infilled where the door and windows are to be demolished will need to be made from the same composite / wall type you wish to infill them with to display correctly, this is why you need to override the display options for the exsitng elements

Scott

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

rob2218 — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 22:41:13 GMT

ok....understood.....but....

I still don't get it.

If I have an existing wall that has a window in it and that window gets demolished leaving a "hole". Then how can I represent that "hole" in my "proposed" plan without having to:
a) create a 'new' hole, place that new hole in "proposed" renovation filter, then
b) have to insert a wall composite where that new hole resides in 3d space?

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

rob2218 — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 00:48:41 GMT

here's how the plan graphics "should" be showing up.
Is there a way to make the plan look like this using "renovation filters" and not having to add in a "new" hole where there was once a door or window that got demolished?

Please advise.
Cause if there is no way to do this other than to
1. "send window to demolition filter.
2. add new hole in existing wall "exactly" where the window used to be and put the hole in "proposed" renovation filter.
3. add in addition a new wall "exactly" where the window (or door) opening was as well.

I mean..this is a LOT OF WORK...almost tripling the amount of work for renovations.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 01:11:07 GMT

I put a fill coloured the same as the new wall over the demo'ed door or window on the same layer as the wall.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

rob2218 — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 01:50:50 GMT

MAYBE THIS GRAPHICS WILL HELP EXPLAIN MY SITUATION.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

rob2218 — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 01:52:09 GMT

REALLY.....a 2D fill....that's what needs to be inserted in plan? the renovation filters can't be configured to show what I'm looking for automatically?

Rogerdodge wrote:
I put a fill coloured the same as the new wall over the demo'ed door or window on the same layer as the wall.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 03:27:47 GMT

I went through the same pain as you have explained, & ended up using the fill, it is the easiest & quickest way.
I have my demo hatch & solid fill ready, switch the filter to "All Works" then put the appropriate hatching or fill over the new or demo parts.
I do the same in elevations.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Barry Kelly — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 07:09:45 GMT

I don't use the reno filters at all but this is what I would do.

Obviously the wall is tagged as 'existing' and the window as 'to be demolished'.

Now create a renovation filter called "new Construction" or whatever you would like to call it.

Set the filter as per the attached image - I think I have highlighted all the important fields.

Then in the 'Renovation Override Styles' for existing and new set the colours and fills you want.
The to be demolished override really doesn't matter here as you have set it to not show the windows.

The window is automatically filled with a new wall - the trick is you need to override the "new" elements so that appear as you want them to.

I think this is what you are after.

Barry.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Barry Kelly — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 07:21:11 GMT

You could choose to leave the 'New Elements' as "Show" rather than 'Override".
That way they will appear exactly as your wall composites are set up (same for all other 'New' elements (slabs, roofs, windows, etc.) - they will all appear as you normally show them.

You use the same composites for your 'existing' and 'to be demolished' walls (and other elements) but they are being overridden by the filter to appear differently.

Barry.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 10:22:49 GMT

Rob / Barry,

refer to attached pdf for settings I use that I believe will achieve what you are looking for.

Have re-attached PDF, seems to work now

Scott

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

David Maudlin — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 13:14:10 GMT

Barry wrote:
You could choose to leave the 'New Elements' as "Show" rather than 'Override".

The New needs to be set to Override for the New to appear in the Demolished opening in the Existing wall.

David

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Barry Kelly — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 04:04:00 GMT

David wrote:
Barry wrote:
You could choose to leave the 'New Elements' as "Show" rather than 'Override".
The New needs to be set to Override for the New to appear in the Demolished opening in the Existing wall.

David

'Show' or "Override' should both work.
It just depends on how you want to see the elements.

If you 'Show' the new elements then they will appear as they were created (composite fills, colours, etc.).
Just as they would if you were creating a completely new project.
In this case you would probably 'Override' your existing elements so they appear differently.

If you 'Override' the new elements then you can control how they look and then you would have to 'Show' the existing elements or 'Override' them as well but with different override styles so they appear differently to the new elements.

Seems to me to make sense to 'Show' new elements as they are set up in Archicad and 'Override' existing and to be demolished elements so they appear differently.

Barry.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

David Maudlin — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:33:35 GMT

Barry wrote:
'Show' or "Override' should both work.

I wish it did, but it does not. As per the original post, the demolished opening will show a fill (for New) only if the New is set to Override.

David

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 19:25:38 GMT

I believe that people are tackling this differently to how the developers intended.
Existing elements shoud all be modelled the same way you would model new and but with the status set to existing.
The BIM model will be incomplete if you model differently, there will be 'gaps' in the information in the model and any data / analysis pulled from the model data (eg energy analysis) would be flawed. At the end of a project (ie post defects libility period) all of the new elements would have their stsus changed to existing, ready for the next round of works to proceed or for the facility managers use.

Scott

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 19:33:01 GMT

David wrote:
Barry wrote:
'Show' or "Override' should both work.
I wish it did, but it does not. As per the original post, the demolished opening will show a fill (for New) only if the New is set to Override.

David

David

I think you are reinforcing Barry's point. Your right hand example shows the wall as it was drawn, which is what "Show" means. If you want the new section to stand out you have to either change existing to "Override" with new set to "Show", or existing to "Show" with new to "Override", as Barry explained, otherwise they both look the same (both "Show"-ing the same thing).

Usually I have existing set to Override for proposed plans, with the overrides set so the walls look lighter (grey and plain fills) than any new work.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

David Maudlin — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 13:11:48 GMT

Barry and s2art:

You are right, I misread Barry's post, sorry for the misinformation.

David

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Anonymous — Fri, 12 May 2017 12:55:06 GMT

Barry wrote:
I don't use the reno filters at all but this is what I would do.

Obviously the wall is tagged as 'existing' and the window as 'to be demolished'.

Now create a renovation filter called "new Construction" or whatever you would like to call it.

Set the filter as per the attached image - I think I have highlighted all the important fields.

Then in the 'Renovation Override Styles' for existing and new set the colours and fills you want.
The to be demolished override really doesn't matter here as you have set it to not show the windows.

The window is automatically filled with a new wall - the trick is you need to override the "new" elements so that appear as you want them to.

I think this is what you are after.

Barry.

Hi Barry,

Am I right in understanding that ARCHICAD (v20 for me) does not allow you to create NEW graphic overrides based on Renovation Status...? So when you say "New Override" you are meaning to adjust the existing Renovation overrides (1 of 3) that is the default?

As a side note - it seems that it would be extremely useful to be able to create new Graphic Overrides based on renovation status - not sure why ARCHICAD does not permit this.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Barry Kelly — Mon, 15 May 2017 01:03:03 GMT

benjamin_chan wrote:
Hi Barry,

Am I right in understanding that ARCHICAD (v20 for me) does not allow you to create NEW graphic overrides based on Renovation Status...? So when you say "New Override" you are meaning to adjust the existing Renovation overrides (1 of 3) that is the default?

As a side note - it seems that it would be extremely useful to be able to create new Graphic Overrides based on renovation status - not sure why ARCHICAD does not permit this.

Hi Benjamin,
This post was started before version 20 so there were no Graphic Overrides as shown in your image.
They are separate from the Renovation Filter Overrides.

You can only have the 3 renovation status(es) - new, existing and to be demolished.
You can however have as many renovation filters as you want where you can control how each of these status appear and you can set elements to only appear when a particular renovation filter is active.

Barry.

Re: EXISTING...DEMOLITION...TO NEW?

Anonymous — Mon, 15 May 2017 03:49:11 GMT

Barry wrote:
benjamin_chan wrote:
Hi Barry,

Am I right in understanding that ARCHICAD (v20 for me) does not allow you to create NEW graphic overrides based on Renovation Status...? So when you say "New Override" you are meaning to adjust the existing Renovation overrides (1 of 3) that is the default?

As a side note - it seems that it would be extremely useful to be able to create new Graphic Overrides based on renovation status - not sure why ARCHICAD does not permit this.
Hi Benjamin,
This post was started before version 20 so there were no Graphic Overrides as shown in your image.
They are separate from the Renovation Filter Overrides.

You can only have the 3 renovation status(es) - new, existing and to be demolished.
You can however have as many renovation filters as you want where you can control how each of these status appear and you can set elements to only appear when a particular renovation filter is active.

Barry.

Thanks Barry.

What I mean is that in ARCHICAD 20 there three default Graphic Override Rules, one for Existing Elements, one for Elements to be Demolished, and one for New Elements. The criteria for these three default Graphic Override Rules are greyed out, which I don't understand the reason for.

For example, it would be great to be able to set a Graphic Override for:

Element Type: 3D Types
Renovation Status: New
Layer: External Wall

etc.
But I am unable to do so.