topic Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval? in Documentation

Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Richard Morrison — Fri, 26 May 2023 00:39:12 GMT

I posted this awhile back on the old forum, but never got a really satisfying answer. Thought maybe some creative ideas might have come out at ACU West. So here's the issue:

Does anybody have a good system for keeping track of a library of standard construction details that you've drawn over time, so that you can sort through them quickly and pull out the appropriate ones for placing into Plotmaker? Obviously you could draw one detail per file, put a paper copy in a binder and find it that way. Or keep all your details in one large file, use one view set per detail and send a live copy or a PMK to Plotmaker. This is how I'm currently doing it, but there must be a better way.

I'm wondering if there is anything more efficient, like maybe having a slew of PMK's already pasted up on layout pages, and sorting and dragging around details from there. My only complaint with this is that if you have 10 eave details (labeled eave-1.pmk, eave-2.pmk, etc.), you don't get the automatic title block feature to work as well when you only need eave-5.pmk. Seems like everything I've come up with is pretty kludgy. Any good ideas?

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

vfrontiers — Mon, 05 Apr 2004 03:36:56 GMT

Right now I have a bunch of details in a STANDARD DETAILS folder... Individual Files....w/ unique "ID" numbers....

A few years ago, someone had the idea of making all details OBJECTS...hmmm. I could dream up a way to have all RELATED details in ONE OBJECT... Obviously less than 16 variations... then with a pull down menu, you could select the option to display. Sooner or later tho, you would need to modify it slightly which would mean creating a new FRAGMENT or putting it into a plan and exploding.

On the other hand (and thinking slightly outside the box) if they were Objects, you could conceiveably use the INTERACTIVE SCHEDULE to layout a sheet of details! Ok, too far outside the box...

Now that you can embed PLAN files, it should be easy to keep up with details. But be careful... Changes you make to the master detail will eventually show up in ALL PAST PROJECTS... You could keep ITERATIONS in separate QUICKVIEWS, tho... If something changed for one project, you could create new layers and save a new quick view.. The benefit would be keeping the number of files down by iterating withing one file.

Ok... I'm rambling now.... There's the kernel of an idea without much exploration.... Do with it what you will....

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 05 Apr 2004 03:51:13 GMT

I keep a file for each building type and organize my details by story. An example is wood construction for a residence.The bottom-most story has foundation details the next story up @ grade then @ 1st floor and on up. Variations of a a tile roof eave having different slopes are on the same story.
Pre AC8 I had quick views set up for the different details on a story. These translated beautifully into 8 both for AC and plotmaker layout books.

When I have a typ. eave detail, I'll use the detail marker when placing it in my section to reference the correct detail from my detail file. I then unlink them so my file stays complete for a project. This also allows me to make project specific alterations to a basic detail without potentially messing up the master.
When the project is done, I add it's details into my detail file. Kind of like sorting cards.
What do others do?

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Petros Ioannou — Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:40:42 GMT

I believe that the easiest way is to save each detail as an individual file.
What is important is to have a well organized archive. Usually there are office prototype details and project specific details.
Office prototypes are divided in categories given a number like:
54.100 (roofing)
72.100 (doors) etc

inside these categories each detail gets a number:
54.100 (001)
54.100 (002)
in order to keep track of them (in an excel file)

when such a detail is inserted in a project it gets the category number followed by a ascending number of the project (like 54.100/05) . Same happens with project specific details which are inserted in the same numbering system (category and individual number)
Of course each detail is an individual file in order to use this.
By mixing in the same file different details,specially if they come from different sources (manufacturers, file types dwg) could cause a lot of trouble (with layers etc). So I keep a file for each detail.
HTH
Petros

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:18:25 GMT

So far everyone in this topic is on Windows and I'm sorry to say I haven't much to add there. But, for Mac users there is ScrapIt Pro X (available at http://www.johnvholder.com).

This scrapbook utility allows you to copy/paste anything from/to ArchiCAD to create catalogs of details, bathroom layouts, symbol legends, etc. I have been using it for about 14 years and recommending it to all my Mac based clients.

Unfortunately I have been unable to find an equivalent program on Windows. As is so often the case, there are many more to choose from but none of them are good enough to be worth the effort to set them up. The one passable alternative I have found is to save details as modules organized into folders. Browsing them from ArchiCAD provides a small preview icon which helps select the desired detail.

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

SeaGeoff — Mon, 05 Apr 2004 17:49:17 GMT

Matthew,
Does ScrapIt save ArchiCAD objects in their native format, or just as lines. What I mean to say is, can you save module-like assemblies of walls, doors, cabinets, etc. and reuse them with all parameters and 3D attributes intact? Thanks.

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:41:23 GMT

ScrapIt stores the pasted data completely intact. It is effectively a scrapbook of modules that you can paste back into ArchiCAD with all their attributes intact. The limitation is that copy/paste is the only way it works. ScrapIt cannot import or export ArchiCAD modules intact.

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:38:48 GMT

Matthew wrote:
The one passable alternative I have found is to save details as modules organized into folders. Browsing them from ArchiCAD provides a small preview icon which helps select the desired detail.

Could some one point out where is this SMALL PREVIEW ICON of a modules talked about?
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:29:45 GMT

Joseph wrote:
Matthew wrote:
The one passable alternative I have found is to save details as modules organized into folders. Browsing them from ArchiCAD provides a small preview icon which helps select the desired detail.
Could some one point out where is this SMALL PREVIEW ICON of a modules talked about?
Thanks,
Joseph

That works in Windows only (AFAIK). There is a far better solution on the Mac in the shareware program ScrapIt Pro X. The drawback is you have to copy/paste your modules into the program. the advantage is that you can see large previews of your details before bringing them into your project. You can get it at: http://www.johnvholder.com

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:16:41 GMT

Here's what we do in my office:

Create a PLN or PLP file that contains all of your standard details. Organize them in Navigator as you wish...ours are organized first by general type and then by a more specific type. For instance there is a subset for Millwork\Teller Counters.

Once this is done you can publish any or all details in whatever format you desire - pmk, mod (module files), etc. using a "real" folder structure (in the publishing options. Your details are then organized on your hard drive or sever in the exact same folder structure as in navigator.

The only drawback is than since AC 8.0 we no longer have the ability to publish individual stories, instead ALL stories get published. We set this up in AC 7 and had each different plan drawn on a different story which could be published individually. Now we must workaround this by manually saving out the plan views, but for sections, elevations, and details it works great.

Having all of your standard details in a single file will also allow you to modify them globally at once if the need arises...say if your office decided to change the pen table settings or whatever, it will affect all of the drawings contained in the file.

Finally, in PM we have added the source file path autotext to the titlebar so that we can know just be looking where a drawing came from. Some of our standard details are linked directly to the standard detail PLP file instead of placing them into the project file directly, so having the source path in the titlebar helps to realize this when looking at the drawings on paper or in PlotMaker.

Regards

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:20:39 GMT

Hi Eric,
You wrote

Eric wrote:
Some of our standard details are linked directly to the standard detail PLP file instead of placing them into the project file directly

Now the million dollar question is:
If I put a detail marker on my floor plan with a detail Reference ID and Drawing Number and Sheet Number set to PM, now when I import the building plan file and then the (standard) Detail plan file how do I combine or link a specific detail from detail plan to the blank detail marker coming from the view sets on my building plan?
Thanks,
Joseph Harouni

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Richard Morrison — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:43:24 GMT

After much cogitating and experimentation based on the above, I've come up with a pretty good workflow for managing office details. In retrospect, it seems obvious, but since it wasn't to ME, I'll share it in case others may find it useful.

1) Put all office standard details in ONE file, per Eric's suggestion. Each detail needs its own VIEW, which includes scale and display zoom. I've found it works best for me to have each category of detail on a separate story (e.g. story 1 = standard Tee footings, story 2 = retaining walls, story 3 = drilled piers, story 4 = floor framing, etc.), and then put each detail on a single layer. (e.g. Footing 1 = layer 01, Footing 2 = layer 02.) An important timesaver is to make sure that the View Name works as the future title of the detail in Plotmaker.

2) Now it's easy to open Publisher and with the individual Views on the left, create a new View Set for the right pane (e.g. Smith Residence). Running down the details in the left pane, if you significantly enlarge the Navigator Preview window you can get a pretty good idea of what's in the detail, or just double click on the view to check it out more carefully. When you spot a detail you want to include, just drag it over to the "Smith Residence" view set. You also can organize the Smith Residence view set with major categories if you have too many details for a flat file structure.

3) Publish the Smith Residence view set as PMKs to the Smith job folder. (Publish with real folder structure if you've got a lot of details.) When you do this, each PMK will have the file name of the original view for that detail. (View Name.PMK)

4) Open Plotmaker and drag PMK's onto each layout sheet. If you've set up a master title type with Autotext which includes "drawing name", "drawing number", and "drawing scale", and set PM to automatically add this as a default title, each of the PMKs will come in uniformly titled, with label, number, and scale. (Note: This was not possible in the last version of PM because the .PMK file extension was not deleted in the autotext drawing name. Fortunately this bug was fixed.)

I think that PMKs are better than live PLNs, because a) they're faster to display, b) all the details can stay with the layout for archiving, and c) if you update your master detail file, it doesn't change everything in past projects.

So that's it. Not sure if this works exactly the same on Macs, but this seems to work for me on a PC. Hope that's helpful.

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:31:42 GMT

Richard wrote:
and then put each detail on a single layer. (e.g. Footing 1 = layer 01, Footing 2 = layer 02.)

Richard what is the advantage of having one layer for each detail and ending up with 500 layers for 500 details vs. possibly one master layer of ArchiCad for all?

Richard wrote:
and then put each detail on a single layer. (e.g. Footing 1 = layer 01, Footing 2 = layer 02.)
each of the PMKs will come in uniformly titled, with label, number, and scale.

My question to you and Eric remains; how does one link these details in PM to the detail marker on the floor plan?
Thanks,
Joseph Harouni

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Richard Morrison — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:54:06 GMT

Joseph wrote:
Richard wrote:
and then put each detail on a single layer. (e.g. Footing 1 = layer 01, Footing 2 = layer 02.)
Richard what is the advantage of having one layer for each detail and ending up with 500 layers for 500 details vs. possibly one master layer of ArchiCad for all?
Richard wrote:
and then put each detail on a single layer. (e.g. Footing 1 = layer 01, Footing 2 = layer 02.)
each of the PMKs will come in uniformly titled, with label, number, and scale.
My question to you and Eric remains; how does one link these details in PM to the detail marker on the floor plan?
Thanks,
Joseph Harouni

Joseph:

You only need enough layers to cover the number of details on ONE story (say, 50?) I put each detail on one layer so that it can be easily displayed by itself, and zoomed with "Fit in Window".

If you need a detail to link to a specific detail marker/detail window, then you'll probably need to publish that detail as a module file or a DWG, rather than a PMK, since these formats are needed to merge into a detail window. Having multiple stories creates complications with module files, so this may be more difficult with a single file detail PLN. If the detail windows would merge PMKs, it woiuld be terrific.

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:31:02 GMT

The concept of how a model is translated in 2d is GS’s duty. But GS never ever solved or attempted solving it and by now we know it will never be solved. Instead of using the computer GS invented an ill-conceived proprietary database manager.

Again the management of all the parts of the project has to happen in the finder and not somewhere else.

I have to be critical, because I have complained much about this aspect and now it hurts most of us.

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:00:31 GMT

To answer Joseph's question:

Of course a detail drawing cannot be linked to an external detail so that's why if you publish all of your details as modules you can then merge them into your project file and then link to them with a detail marker using the automatic detail numbering.

We use 2 types of "standard details":
1. Project specific details (apply only to the current project, not to all projects)
2. General details (apply to all projects)

General details are left linked to the external "standard details" PLP file and are placed in PM directly while the project specific details are merged into the project file as needed and referenced accordingly. This is where good Plotmaker templates really help you. If you setup sheets and notes for general details they can be left in place and you can reference them consistently from job to job.

Cheers,

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:49:54 GMT

Richard wrote:
You only need enough layers to cover the number of details on ONE story (say, 50?) I put each detail on one layer so that it can be easily displayed by itself, and zoomed with "Fit in Window".

Richard,
As I understand the name of the layers do not reflect the content of the detail itself; if so how can you view the detail you want base on layer naming of 01, 02,......49,50 for each detail?
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Richard Morrison — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:49:33 GMT

Joseph wrote:
Richard,
As I understand the name of the layers do not reflect the content of the detail itself; if so how can you view the detail you want base on layer naming of 01, 02,......49,50 for each detail?
Thanks,
Joseph

First detail you draw on Layer 01 on a story with, say, eave details. Every other layer is turned off so you only see the first detail. Zoom to fit window and create a named View for that story and that custom layer set called whatever you want (e.g. Eave Detail with Gutter), then turn off layer 01 and turn on layer 02. Create a named View for that detail (e.g. Eave Detail - No gutter) Now you can view the details, either by highlighting the View Name in Navigator and looking at the Navigator Preview, or by Double-clicking the view name and actually looking at the individual details as they pop up.

The Navigator will show every story with the named category of details (if you've named the story), with the individual names of details a level down in the hierarchy.
Hope that's clear.

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:44:48 GMT

Richard wrote:
either by highlighting the View Name in Navigator and looking at the Navigator Preview, or by Double-clicking the view name and actually looking at the individual details as they pop up

Thanks Richard, finally I think got it.
By the way if one creates a layer combination, let say 01 with layer 01 on only, then you can use the fly out button in the navigator to turn on the specific detail on in the floor plan also.
Thanks for all the help.
Joseph Harouni

Re: Organizing Details for Easy Retrieval?

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:59:13 GMT

Eric wrote:
Of course a detail drawing cannot be linked to an external detail so that's why if you publish all of your details as modules you can then merge them into your project file and then link to them with a detail marker using the automatic detail numbering.

Hi Eric,

Linking to the markers is important to me, so I want to check to see if I'm understanding your suggestion: for X number of external details, do you then repeat X times: create detail window, merge (or hotlink) appropriate detail? Seems like a pretty tedious process if X is big.

This precludes using 3D elements in details ... since they can't be used in the Detail windows. (I.e., our old conversation about the Detail window and MSA Detailer - where the MSA 'trick' for drawing sheathing is to use a wall.) Since 3D elements are ignored during a merge/copy/hotlink into a Detail window, it then becomes important that the original details in the master PLN file be done in Detail windows as well to avoid losing geometry due to forgetting to explode 3D elements were they to have been drawn in a story.

Thoughts?

Karl